An in depth study of Pam and Barbara (Secret 7)

[pete9012S]

Here's my guesses:

1.George
2.Peter
3.Pam
4.Janet
5.Barbara
6.Colin
7.Jack

Probably wrong!!!

[Anita Bensoussane]

I remember feeling annoyed with Barbara in the first book (The Secret Seven) as she quickly loses interest in examining tracks in the snow with Janet. Janet suggests that they sketch the tyre pattern and measure the width of the tyre print. Barbara says, "I don't see how those things can possibly matter," and we're told that she "wanted to go down the lane and join the three boys." When Janet sketches the pattern and takes the measurement anyway, Barbara laughs at her drawing and exclaims, "Gracious! What a mess!"

A few minutes later Barbara says, "Let's go and see if we can find the boys," but Janet replies, "No. We haven't quite finished our job yet. We ought to follow the tracks as far as they go." Barbara does go with her, but I can't believe her lack of enthusiasm. Fancy having an exciting mystery to solve but not really caring about it!

Well, girls can be different - we also see it between George and Anne (Kirrin).

Anne may hope that she, her brothers and cousin will have a holiday without an adventure, but once an adventure comes along she doesn't dismiss the curious things they've observed as unimportant, and she doesn't scoff at the others' efforts.

[Bertie]

That's true, Anita.

Although, without remembering many specifics, I think she does at times try to downplay some of the early signs of a potential adventure in the hope they can avoid it rather than go exploring and 'make' an adventure happen? Whereas all the rest of the FF, and all the FFO and SS, are always on the alert looking and hoping for a mystery / adventure. So Anne is mostly an outlier there (though, as you point out, Barbara wasn't too motivated in that early book!)

And, as you say, once the adventure is undoubtedly up and running Anne doesn't behave like Barbara in that book at all and always solidly does what she can.

[pete9012S]

In Secret Seven Mystery, Pam and Barbara go off to explore the woods and the fields so they have quite an adventure of their own. It shows they can do their bit for the club. Unfortunately, they eventually get sabotaged by Susie!

Thank you Lenoir.
Here's a front cover comparison by two artists:




In this book, Pam gets 48 mentions and Barbara gets 26 which is nice.

' Password!' shouted Peter. A cautious voice came in through the keyhole.
' I've forgotten. But I'm Pam, so you can let me in.'
'No, we can't. You know the rule,' said Peter, sternly.
'Think of lamb chops!' called Janet, before Peter could stop her.
A giggle was heard. 'Oh, yes - of course. MINT SAUCE.'
Janet opened the door, but Peter looked quite cross. 'How dare you remind Pam like that?' he
demanded.
'Well, you reminded me!' said Janet, indignantly. 'You said, "Think of lamb chops," didn't you?'
'There's someone else coming,' said Peter, changing the subject hurriedly.

What a bossy prat Peter is - honestly, who would want to be in his precious club!

Pam came up the steps too. 'Pooh!' she said, and held her nose. 'What a FRIGHTFUL smell!
Come down, Barbara. You know jolly well you'd never hide in a place like that, nor any other
schoolgirl either. I think I'm going to be sick.'
'You're right - I'd rather sleep in a ditch than in there,' said Barbara. 'Don't be sick, Pam. It's not
worth it. Come on, let's get on with our job. We want to have plenty to report to the others this
afternoon.'

[John Pickup]

I wrote an article for the Journal a few years ago, The Secret Seven, Two Too Many where I claimed that Pam and Barbara were largely superfluous to the club and had very little positive action in the books.
Perhaps seven characters are too many for a series but, as Malcolm Saville did with the members of the Lone Pine club, leaving some of the members out occasionally, for example George and Colin could be away on holiday, would allow Pam and Barbara a more active role in the adventure and a more prominent role.

[pete9012S]

That's true John, though as you point out I wonder if Enid included characters like Pam & Barb so some readers could identify with them?

And, as you say, as a former schoolteacher, Enid would have observed that not all children are like bossy Peter, bragging Frederick, conscientious Julian and madcap Snubby.

[Bertie]

Very valid points, John.

I guess Enid did know that 4 / 5 was the optimum number, which is the amount in most of the other mystery and Adventure series. But I guess it's good to have a bit of variety and describe a larger group for once.

I think in most of the series you only have one or two characters that are key to the books, while of the others they're mostly just normal, run of the mill kids that you could easily work round removing one without much effort. Even in the groups with 4 or 5, there's often at least one that, if not superfluous, you struggle to think of many talents / humour that makes them important elements of the books.

FFO - you could easily remove Larry or Daisy; Barney R's - Roger or Diana; Adventure series - Lucy Ann; Secret series - any apart from Jack (integral in the first book), Adventurous Four - any apart from Andy (though you'd need a name change!), etc.

So I agree you could remove Pam and / or Barbara and the stories wouldn't be too different. But I think that applies to Colin and / or George as well, really. Peter, Janet, Jack and Susie (as the series antagonist) seem to be the more important ones.

[Stephen]

Here's my guesses:

1.George
2.Peter
3.Pam
4.Janet
5.Barbara
6.Colin
7.Jack

Probably wrong!!!

I'm pretty sure you're right about George because I think that's the same boy on the cover of the book where he gets seized by a member of the public for trailing someone in the street. And isn't there another one where he has a torch shone in his face? You could probably deduce them all by looking at the covers of the 1980s editions.

Come to think of it, who were these children anyway? Stage school actors? Child models? Or just kids of the mates of the publisher?

[Stephen]

More observations on these two by Hari Menon:

Pam: One of the two gigglers in the club. Perhaps her sole contribution to the club is when she "interviews" her grandmother in Three Cheers Secret Seven (and misspells the word "absolutely" in the process).

That was the one moment I was thinking of! And the grandmother acts surprised at first but then says something like "Oh well if these are Peter's orders, you must do as you are told!"

Seems like the arrogant little tyke's reputation precedes him!

[Moonraker]

I wrote an article for the Journal a few years ago, The Secret Seven, Two Too Many where I claimed that Pam and Barbara were largely superfluous to the club and had very little positive action in the books.
Perhaps seven characters are too many for a series but, as Malcolm Saville did with the members of the Lone Pine club, leaving some of the members out occasionally, for example George and Colin could be away on holiday, would allow Pam and Barbara a more active role in the adventure and a more prominent role.

Yes, the Secret Five would have been a pretty naff title for a major series. I suppose you could include the dog and call them the Super Six!

As for the LP5, I remember being really disappointed when my favourite characters were missing from a book.

Lone Pine Club

[pete9012S]

The second book - Secret Seven Adventure:


I did not realise there are some subtle differences in these 1968,1969 & 1975 covers by the excellent Derek Lucas.

Pam shines in this book and gets 37 mentions.
Barbara gets 20 mentions, so that's nice.

Pam & Barbara are almost symbiotic in this book:

“That's just what Pam and I thought!” said Barbara.

“We can't!” said Pam and Barbara. “We're going to a party.”

“Don't have a meeting without us,” begged Pam.

Pam shines as quite an observant detective in this book.

[Moonraker]

Another fascinating post, Pete. You must spend hours trawling the books looking for sentences from these girls! I know you like the more modern covers (and the ones you have shown are good), but for me, the originals are always the best. I suppose it just brings it all back to my childhood.

[Anita Bensoussane]

I agree that the originals are special, Nigel, with their eye-catching wrappers, but I like the Derek Lucas paperbacks very much too. I grew up borrowing some Secret Seven books from the library (original hardbacks - or reprints of them!) while gradually collecting the series in their 1970s Knight paperback incarnations, so both those versions are nostalgic for me.

I did not realise there are some subtle differences in these 1968,1969 & 1975 covers by the excellent Derek Lucas.

Well spotted, Pete. I hadn't noticed that. The one on the right (1975) is poorly done as it cuts off most of the lion's head!

I like the Pambara (or Barbam) quotations!

[Wolfgang]

Another fascinating post, Pete. You must spend hours trawling the books looking for sentences from these girls!

In case he has the books in digital format, it's just a matter "Ctrl" and "F" .

[Moonraker]

Good point, Wolfgang.