Angela in St Clare's

[Yak]

Yeah - it did seem for a while that Angela might be going to change though. I think she was actually worse in the final book than the fifth one .. and four or five terms must have elapsed between them.

[Moonraker]

An interesting thread, Yak. I agree with your points, Db105 and Tim.

Yes, most interesting. I must re-read the series at some point.

It is also good to see you posting again, Moose! I thought it was years since we had heard from you, but I see it is only a couple. Also good to read some in-depth discussion on the books. I look forward to reading your plot-holes post on F-o-a Treasure Island, Michael.

[Anita Bensoussane]

     Okay, Anita, I will do that, and put it where you suggest - but I need to get some sleep first (been up all night, and need to sleep before I write the description).

Thanks, Michael. There's no rush, of course, but I'm intrigued and would like to hear about the plot holes whenever time allows.

Thanks for quoting the passages from Claudine at St. Clare's, Hannah. It does seem that Angela was starting to change, but I suppose her mother didn't support her efforts during the holidays and she soon fell back into her old ways.

By the time we get to Fifth Formers of St. Clare's, the fagging system surely doesn't help matters. The power goes to Angela's head and she revels in giving orders to adoring first-formers, enjoying seeing them vie for her attention. She even takes pleasure in hurting them by suddenly dropping one youngster in favour of another as it suits her.

[MJE]

Yeah - it did seem for a while that Angela might be going to change though. I think she was actually worse in the final book than the fifth one .. and four or five terms must have elapsed between them.

     At one point she actively enjoys causing misery and unhappiness to the younger ones who "fag" for her. I think that could be one definition of evil, and I would argue that she is one of very few characters in the school stories and family stories who could be categorized as evil. (We take for granted the evil of criminals in the mystery and adventure stories, and in any case, their character is never explored in any detail anyway. In any case, some of them may not be evil in the sense I just defined.)
     I do seem to recall that Gwen in the Malory Towers series at one point enjoys having caused her parents grief, which tips her at least briefly into the evil category - but she shows at least faint signs of maybe coming good at the end of the final book - whereas I don't recall Angela ever showing similar signs in her final book - although I'd have to read it again to be sure.

Regards, Michael.

[Yak]

Gwen also played malicious tricks on Mary Lou, which was pretty evil I thought. It's strange that both Angela and Gwen had sensible fathers (well that said, their choice of wives does not seem to have been very sensible) and yet both turned out badly.

[GloomyGraham]

It is interesting that Enid wrote two kinds of mothers.

"The kind, sensible one" or "The Snobby Featherhead".

Given her issues with her own mother, I wonder which of these types was closer to her own parent.

On the other hand, apart from being a muddler or hot-tempered (Hi Uncle Quentin), the fathers in Blyton books were almost always perfect/brilliant/adventurous/reliable/daring/insert other glowing adjective.

[Barnard]

The most hot tempered father of all was Mr Lynton. Surprisingly, in The Ragamuffin Mystery, Diana says, “Daddy’s such fun on a holiday.”

[Yak]

From all accounts Enid was not a particularly brilliant mother herself.

[GloomyGraham]

I should probably have also mentioned the wicked mother (well, wife anyway) like the ones in 'Secret Island' or 'Hollow Tree House'.

[Yak]

I've not actually read those ones. Angela's mother was not exactly evil I think - though she was really very nasty - but she was unpleasant. And Gwen's mother was just very silly.

[GloomyGraham]

The ones I mentioned were the 'cruel step-mothers you probably can recognise from something like Cinderella.

[Debbie]

I should probably have also mentioned the wicked mother (well, wife anyway) like the ones in 'Secret Island' or 'Hollow Tree House'.

They're aunts aren't they?

[Abby]

I don't think Angela's mother was evil either. She was spoilt, shallow, self centred and not very bright. I also think she was quite calculating. Her behaviour at the school does not speak of a well bred upper class woman. Re reading the books as an adult I get the impression this woman was a gold digger who used her beauty to nab a man with money and status. I always imagine her as a former model or hammy actress determined to marry into wealth. Angela with her constant boasting and showing off also doesn't come across as totally 'top drawer' despite her titled father.

Incidentally it always annoys me that Angela doesn't get into more trouble for (along with Mirabel) bullying a younger girl so badly she tries to run away. All she gets is a dressing down from Hilary and Mirabel just apologises to Jane and that's OK.

Surely they should both have been hauled up in front of Miss Theobald, Mirabel stripped of her Games Captain title and Angela forbidden to use fags anymore.

[Bertie]

It is interesting that Enid wrote two kinds of mothers.

"The kind, sensible one" or "The Snobby Featherhead".

Given her issues with her own mother, I wonder which of these types was closer to her own parent.

On the other hand, apart from being a muddler or hot-tempered (Hi Uncle Quentin), the fathers in Blyton books were almost always perfect/brilliant/adventurous/reliable/daring/insert other glowing adjective.

That's not really how I've read the fathers / husband's in most of the EB books I know.
I agree about plenty being muddled or hot-tempered. They're also often pretty 'absent' emotionally - just sat reading their paper, or going out for solitude at the first possible opportunity. Very few seem 'perfect' in terms of their role as father's - being caring or loving, eager to spend time with the kids and find out about their day, etc. That's almost always the mother. Though I agree that there's also some examples of bad, uncaring female parental figures - though often aunts or step mother's, with weak husband's who do little to stop them or to help the children.

Though that's all based on the mystery / adventure series, and just some of the family ones. I haven't read any of the school ones at all, so maybe those series portray it differently.

[Wolfgang]

I should probably have also mentioned the wicked mother (well, wife anyway) like the ones in 'Secret Island' or 'Hollow Tree House'.

They're aunts aren't they?

What about Bob's mother from "Six bad boys"?