Angela in St Clare's

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Angela in St Clare's

Post by Yak »

I've been rereading this series recently and have just finished Claudine at St Clare's. In it, Angela seems to learn a lesson and to resolve to be a better person from then on but - in the last book of the series she seems even worse than ever, spoiled and selfish and being awful to the younger girls. Why did Enid decide to change her - and then change her back to her awful self?
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Re: Angela in St Clare's

Post by db105 »

Yak wrote: 18 Nov 2023, 07:45 Why did Enid decide to change her - and then change her back to her awful self?
The plot of the St. Clare's (and also Malory Towers) books depend a lot on a few girls having their own problems or character flaws, and how that causes trouble but eventually they learn some kind of lesson and grow. This makes for satisfactory character arcs within each book, but the problem is that next year you have another book, and if all the characters have already learned and grown, what's the new book about?

Normally what Enid does to avoid this pitfall is giving new girls a central role. There are always new girls coming and going, and since we have not seen them learning their lesson, they can take the weight of the plot. However, this tends to leave the established characters with minor, supporting roles in the story, which can be a little unsatisfactory. After all, those are the characters the readers like and want to follow. For example, the O'Sullivan twins were the main characters in the beginning of the series. They had their issues and they solved them, and at this point they are sensible girls who can be relied on to react to other people's shenanigans and dramas, but not to cause them themselves.

So, to give these established characters more of a role, they sometimes have these "relapses", where they fall back on flaws they supposedly had conquered, or where they show a new flaw that had not appeared before.

I agree that occasionally having a character regress and forget the growth she had had in a previous book can be unsatisfactory, but it's the nature of the series. You notice it more if you are reading all the books one after the other. I think, but I may be misremembering, than in Malory Towers Enid Blyton handles it slightly better, for example not giving Gwendoline her big character growth until the end.

This whole problem would be avoided if her school books were standalones, each of them with a different set of characters, instead of a series. However, Blyton understood how children enjoy the familiarity of a series, where they can revisit the same characters. In the adventure or mystery series, it is not a problem, because the plot is driven by the adventure or mystery, and we get a new one each book, but in these school books, where the plot is driven by the character of the girls, it's more difficult to have new conflicts for each book.
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Re: Angela in St Clare's

Post by timv »

I have always had the impression that the St Clare's series was written with less care overall for plotting and personal 'character arcs' (or balance in giving more or less equal exposure to all the main characters) than the MT books - but as Enid wrote St.C's first and was writing a lot of other books then too I presume she was still experimenting with how to do a school series. there are plenty of good character studies and realistic development though, and some brilliant comedy and intricate 'farce-like' plotting (especially in the Fifth Formers night-time episode with Mam'zelle chasing non-existent burglars and so enabling various girls' problems to be found out and solved).

The way that the twins are pushed to the margins of the plots once they have matured a bit is perhaps inevitable as new characters' stories and problems would necessarily need to take a larger part in later books to keep the readers interested - though Enid managed to get Darrell and her closest friends Sally and Alicia involved in the main plot lines in the later MT books whereas the twins do not get much involved in Claudine or Fifth Formers. The logical way to correct this would be to have them help to sort out a problematic new girl's troubles, or at last have some connection to one of them - Elinor Brent Dyer did this a lot in the Chalet School series, as her main characters matured and became 'A Leader' who showed their qualities ahead of being made Head Girl. Other writers of the period, eg Phyllis Matthewman and Patricia Caldwell, also do it, Dorita Fairlie Bruce made this the centre of Dimsie's story-arc as far back as the 1920s - and Antonia Forest subverted it a bit with her hopeless or crooked prefects (think Lois Sanger). Darrell shows her role as a future leader who intervenes in the Fourth Form MT book by making up for her physical 'assault' on the provoking June by sorting the twins Ruth and Connie out and revealing how Connie has been intimidating Ruth and nagging her to fail her exams so she won't be put up a year next term - so Enid used this already popular story arc then and was aware of it.

Doing the same for the twins would have been a good idea; ditto writing a Third Form book for St Clare's. By the point of her having to decide what to write about in St Clare's Book Four she had already written four books on four terms at St C, and was no doubt anxious to move on to the girls' Senior years . Of course she could have decided 'this series is so absorbing , I ought to write eight books not six' - but possibly she had scheduled her writing so firmly that she had no slot' free to do this as she had Famous Five and Find Outer books to write too and lacked the time to put an extra book in, or her publishers had arranged a schedule of six school books in six years and were unwilling to change this. You can sympathise with her if she was too exhausted to write any more!

As for Angela, her manipulating her 'fags' is realistic enough if unpleasant, and shows her up again as selfish and not attuned to anyone else's feelings. As a very rich and good-looking girl with a 'posh' background this sort of attitude is plausible for her, as well as showing some psychological insight in presenting A as experimenting as she grows up with using her looks and charm to win over and then play around with her 'fan club'. A sort of 1940s-50s 'Mean Girls' equivalent of a 'Queen Bee' showing her power (as the US would call it?). Using her role as a Senior for her own advancement not to help others is also apparent , to a lesser degree, with the behaviour of Mirabel as Games Captain; though M is more sensitive and when she finds out that she has unfairly targeted Jane Teal and she has alienated her admirer Gladys she does apologise and try to put things right. M has more 'hinterland' as she is a skilled violinist. (So Enid does show subtlety in this book - the two 'show-offs' react differently to being caught out).

It would have been nicer to have Angela totally disgraced or expelled, as she had caused Jane to try to run away and if Mam'zelle had not caught her she could have ended up with pneumonia from being out in the dark with a chill - but in the 1940s this sort of emotional 'abuse' was not seen by grown-ups as that important. Not expelling her is realistic enough, but it is another example of the 'bleakness' that I and others have found at times in the St Clare's series.
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Re: Angela in St Clare's

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

An interesting thread, Yak. I agree with your points, Db105 and Tim.

Angela has been accustomed to receiving plenty of attention and admiration for so long that I suppose one lesson isn't enough to have a lasting effect on her. She's used to being labelled as a beauty and has found that that gives her a certain power, which she obviously enjoys immensely. It would take intense self-scrutiny and resolve for her to change things, and that won't happen easily because Angela has come to regard herself as superior - partly because others who are lacking in self-esteem respond to her with such adoration, eager to do her bidding. She appears to be mildly amused by them but at the same time despises them, so the occasional moment of insight or empathy on her part isn't likely to last.

We have an ongoing theme with Alison too, who is let down by those she worships but goes on to worship others - though unlike Angela, she's otherwise pretty likeable.

In the Malory Towers series, Alicia has a flash of understanding of the struggles of those who are less academically gifted (when her head feels muzzy and she can't concentrate properly, failing her exams). It turns out that she was going down with the measles, and she makes a full recovery. However, once she's better she still shows no sympathy for classmates who struggle. She's just as sharp-tongued and dismissive as ever! Of course, if she did change after having been the same way for several books running, readers might feel that Alicia wasn't really Alicia any more - which touches on some of the points made by Db105.
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Re: Angela in St Clare's

Post by Wolfgang »

Isn't it described in one of the Malory Tower books, that Gwendoline "improves" during a term but is spoilt by her mother and her governess in the holidays again?
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Re: Angela in St Clare's

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Yes, that's in Third Year at Malory Towers (I'm not sure whether anything similar is said in other books):
"Look - there's our dear Gwendoline Mary having a weep on Mother's shoulder as usual!" said Alicia, her attention caught by the sight of Gwendoline's mother, who was dabbing away tears as she said good-bye to Gwendoline.

"There's Miss Winter, Gwendoline's old governess, too," said Darrell. "No wonder poor Gwen never gets any better - always Mother's Darling Pet. We get some sense into her in term-time, and then she loses it all again in the hols."

Gwendoline does make more of an effort towards the end of In the Fifth at Malory Towers, having realised with horror that she and Maureen, whom she dislikes, are very similar. Sadly, people have become so used to ignoring Gwen by that time, being sick to death of her selfishness and spite, that nobody notices her attempts to be friendlier and more sensible:
She [Gwen] was beginning to be a little afraid of Maureen. Maureen was silly and affected - but she had a cunning and sly side to her nature, too. So had Gwen, of course. She recognized it easily in Maureen because it was in herself too. That was the dreadful part of this forced friendship with Maureen. It was like being friends with yourself, and knowing all the false, silly, sly things that went on in your own mind.

Gwen did try to alter herself a bit, so that she wouldn't be like Maureen. She stopped her silly laugh and her wide, false smile. She stopped talking about herself too.

To her enormous annoyance nobody seemed to notice it. As a matter of fact, they took so little notice of her at all that if she had suddenly grown a moustache and worn riding-boots they wouldn't have bothered. Who wanted to pay any attention to Gwen? She had never done anything to make herself liked or trusted, so the best thing to do was to ignore her.

And ignore her they did, though poor Gwen was doing her best to be sensible and likeable now. She had left it a bit too late!
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Re: Angela in St Clare's

Post by Yak »

Fascinating answers, thanks everyone. Yes, I was amused by the introduction of Maureen as a character and its impact on Gwen. I wish we had seen more of her in the final book, even though she was really not likeable at all.
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Re: Angela in St Clare's

Post by GloomyGraham »

I think (not just in the school books - and well before she became ill) Enid forgot a few things.

She really could have done with an assistant to point out a few errors or vagaries at times.

Most of her editors at publishing companies would hardly have bothered to read the books and not noticed that 'Alf' had suddenly become 'James' (orJoan/Joanna), it would have just been 'Thanks Miss Blyton, when can you deliver the next story in the series?'.
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Re: Angela in St Clare's

Post by Wolfgang »

Anita Bensoussane wrote: 18 Nov 2023, 22:21
She [Gwen] was beginning to be a little afraid of Maureen. Maureen was silly and affected - but she had a cunning and sly side to her nature, too. So had Gwen, of course. She recognized it easily in Maureen because it was in herself too. That was the dreadful part of this forced friendship with Maureen. It was like being friends with yourself, and knowing all the false, silly, sly things that went on in your own mind.

Gwen did try to alter herself a bit, so that she wouldn't be like Maureen. She stopped her silly laugh and her wide, false smile. She stopped talking about herself too.

To her enormous annoyance nobody seemed to notice it. As a matter of fact, they took so little notice of her at all that if she had suddenly grown a moustache and worn riding-boots they wouldn't have bothered. Who wanted to pay any attention to Gwen? She had never done anything to make herself liked or trusted, so the best thing to do was to ignore her.

And ignore her they did, though poor Gwen was doing her best to be sensible and likeable now. She had left it a bit too late!
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Re: Angela in St Clare's

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

If the others had noticed Gwendoline making an effort and had helped and encouraged her, maybe things would have been different. Perhaps not though, because Gwen would still have been over-indulged at home in the holidays (hence Darrell's remark in Third Year at Malory Towers).

Of course, if Gwen had turned over a new leaf we wouldn't have had the dramatic plotline concerning her in Last Term at Malory Towers, which strikes a sombre note and fits the somewhat subdued atmosphere of the final book.
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Re: Angela in St Clare's

Post by MJE »

Yak wrote: 18 Nov 2023, 07:45Angela seems to learn a lesson and to resolve to be a better person from then on but - in the last book of the series she seems even worse than ever, spoiled and selfish and being awful to the younger girls. Why did Enid decide to change her - and then change her back to her awful self?
     I cannot add anything more of any depth to the various posts already made - but a couple of simple answers to your question occur to me.

  1. She did it to get more plot mileage out of Angela.
     I've clearly forgotten that Angela resolved to be better - I must check that out, because I cannot imagine a nicer Angela, who to my mind is one of the most deeply unpleasant characters Enid Blyton ever created, and I'm now a bit curious to see what a nicer Angela would be like.
     In fact, I think I would rank Angela and Gwedoline as perhaps the two Blyton characters I would see the least hope for in terms of improvement - although Gwen does at the very end show a possibility of improvement.

  2. It's realistic about human nature that we resolve to improve in some big way, but, probably more often than not, that resolve fails and we fall back into old ways. We may then resolve a second time, a third time, and more, and may eventually improve - although I rather pessimistically believe we are largely fixed in our path by about our teens, and it is not impossible, but comparatively rare, for someone to radically change after that and for it to last.
     Enid Blyton is sometimes accused of creating unrealistic plots. Well, if we want to find realistic aspects of her stories to defend her, this to me is clearly one of them. In fact, for Angela to resolve to improve and then not to seems so ordinary to me that I would never have even thought of raising a question about it.

Regards, Michael.
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Re: Angela in St Clare's

Post by MJE »

GloomyGraham wrote: 19 Nov 2023, 07:31I think (not just in the school books - and well before she became ill) Enid forgot a few things.

She really could have done with an assistant to point out a few errors or vagaries at times.

Most of her editors at publishing companies would hardly have bothered to read the books and not noticed that 'Alf' had suddenly become 'James' (orJoan/Joanna), it would have just been 'Thanks Miss Blyton, when can you deliver the next story in the series?'.
     I agree with this. There are quite a few inconsistencies that occur well before the last few years of Enid Blyton's writing life which were marred by her dementia - things like the Alf/James and Joan/Joanna confusion, and the question of how the parents of George and her cousins are related to each other.
     These are possibly not hugely significant - if you are bothered by them, you can just mentally decide that the fisher boy is James, for example, and each time you see "Alf", you mentally change it to "James" - or the other way around if you prefer. The relationships of the parents are not so easy to resolve, but this has little if any actual impact on the plot of any of the stories.
     Far more serious to my mind are occasional plot lapses that create an impossible situation. There is a serious lapse in the action chapters towards the end of "Five on a Treasure Island" which I must admit rather spoils the story for me, as it would not be easy to fix without upsetting other aspects of the story. I am not sure whether I should describe it here and maybe spoil the story for others, but no-one else has ever mentioned it to my knowledge.
     Another one, a little less serious, occurs during the climactic chapters of "Five Have a Mystery to Solve" - which is probably from the period affected by dementia anyway - but this particular plot hole could be fixed by adding one or two paragraphs at a particular point in one chapter.
     The plot lapse in "Five on a Treasure Island" would be more difficult to fix, but it might be possible if several paragraphs, perhaps amounting to an extra page or so of text, could be added in a few different places in the part of the story affected.
     I won't for the moment describe what these plot holes are - some may find it an enjoyable puzzle to try to work out what they might be. But, if asked, I will describe them, perhaps preceded by a prominent "SPOILER" warning.
     If Enid Blyton had had some kind of assistant along the lines Gloomy Graham suggested, probably these and other issues would have been picked up.
     I generally take a pretty dim view of meddling with Enid Blyton's texts for reasons of political correctness or just to "update" details in stories which are of a certain period anyway, regardless - but additions to resolve plot holes of this sort are one kind of alteration I could probably look favourably upon - preferably with a note somewhere in the book saying that that had been done.

Regards, Michael.
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Re: Angela in St Clare's

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

I haven't read Five on a Treasure Island or Five Have a Mystery to Solve recently enough to guess at the plot holes you're referring to, Michael, so I for one would appreciate an account of them! Your account of the plot holes might be more at home in the 'Famous Five Fluffs' topic though:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=467&hilit=famous+fi ... &start=135
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Re: Angela in St Clare's

Post by MJE »

     Okay, Anita, I will do that, and put it where you suggest - but I need to get some sleep first (been up all night, and need to sleep before I write the description).
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Re: Angela in St Clare's

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MJE wrote: 19 Nov 2023, 18:56   1. She did it to get more plot mileage out of Angela.
     I've clearly forgotten that Angela resolved to be better - I must check that out, because I cannot imagine a nicer Angela, who to my mind is one of the most deeply unpleasant characters Enid Blyton ever created, and I'm now a bit curious to see what a nicer Angela would be like.
Unfortunately we don't get much of a description. It's just said
And, to the astonishment of all the fourth form, things between the two friends appeared now to be quite changed! Angela was now the docile one, accepting teasing criticism, and Alison was the leader!
“Good for both of them!” said Bobby, with a grin. “This will make Angela a nicer person altogether, and will end in giving Alison quite a lot of common sense!”
and
The girls were all rather touched by this letter. Alison at once found the thimble and said she would wear it and not think too badly of Eileen.
“It was mostly her mother’s fault she was such a little sneak and beast,” said Bobby. “Golly, we’re lucky to have decent mothers, aren’t we?”
Angela went red at this remark but said nothing. She had been so much nicer lately—and she had determined that when she went home for the holidays, she was going to praise St. Clare’s night and day, and not allow her mother to say a single word against it! Mothers could make bad or good children—“but,” thought Angela, “maybe children could alter mothers sometimes too.” She was going to have a good try to make her mother change her mind about quite a lot of things. Miss Theobald would have been very delighted if she had known some of the thoughts that went through Angela’s golden head those days.
That's at the end of Claudine at St. Clare's but it doesn't last into the next book.
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