Five Have a Mystery to Solve

[Debbie]

One thing that has struck me that didn't when I was a child is how claustrophobic some of the scenes in the books are. Enid regularly has characters who squeeze through holes and spaces, wander through tunnels that are so low the character has to bend double, swim in some of them (in darkness, underwater!) climb down wells on a rope and if that's not difficult enough climbing into tiny hidden spaces within it. I'm afraid to say no matter how exciting I couldn't bring myself to do any of those. I still believe that the most horrifying moment in the books is finding that poor ill man stuffed down a well into a tiny hidden chamber in Ring O'Bells. At least Julian had the choice to squeeze through a pokey well hole in Mystery to Solve.

People (real ones, not fictional ones) actually did this back in those days. White Scar Caves, Ingleton were discovered in 1923 by a student exploring the area with a few friends. He found a hole in the hillside and crawled in. He crawled into the hillside for 2 hours before coming out by a waterfall where he could stand up and turn round. Then he had the chance to crawl back.

I can't imagine crawling into a hole that I couldn't get out of. Let alone keeping going for two hours. But this man Christopher Long did it, as did just about every character that Enid Blyton ever created!

My uncle did caving in his 20s. He's got a story how him and a group were crawling along a known tunnel when one of them spotted a hole they hadn't seen before. So he called the others, and it looked reasonable, so they went through and found a little cavern. They explored it and then went to go. Couldn't find the exit hole. The only exit they could see was this tiny hole in the floor, that was so small they dismissed it. I'm not sure how long they were there, but I do know it was long enough to call mountain rescue for my grandparents, who lived some way away. It was complicated by the fact that they normally left a detailed map of where they were planning to go and this was the one time they had forgotten.
Anyway, I think when they'd been there a considerable time (memory says about 2 days, but I may be wrong), they decided the only thing they could do was to go down this tiny hole in the floor and see where it led. The hole was so small they didn't think they'd even get all their equipment through.
They dropped through it... and discovered that it was the hole they'd come in by, but it was much larger at the other end.
The thought makes me feel claustrophobic.

Anne being a tiger I think was EB's answer to people thinking Anne was insipid and boring. I don't think she is. She's brave-she continues with the others, despite being scared, and has a lot of determination when things are going wrong, but in a quiet way. She's well written as the quiet one who would like to get on with a normal holiday and happens to enjoy cooking and looking after the others. There's nothing wrong with that, she just isn't (as I think Julian says at some point) the adventurous type, and enjoys normal holiday life without getting mixed up in something strange!

[Katharine]

I've just finished reading this book. I know many people rate this quite poorly, but I also enjoyed it as a child, however after this re-read, I see perhaps why people aren't so keen.

The copy I read this time was a 1997 reprint, whereas the book I read as a child was a hardback version. The paperback has obviously been altered, and so it's hard to know what 'jarring' bits are original and which are because of modernisation. For instance, I never remembered there being a character called Doris in it, and thought my memory was worse than I realised, however reading earlier comments in this thread, I see that actually she was called 'Cookie' originally. I was also surprised to see mentions of tins of tuna on several occasions: I don't ever recall the Five (or indeed any Enid Blyton character) eating tuna before, it's not something I remember seeing tins of as a child. Then the penny dropped - I expect originally they were tins of sardines!

I agree with all the comments about confusion as to the children living so close to each other now, and how Mrs Layman knew them when they were little, and yet strangely George doesn't know who she is! The cottage is also a mystery - the boys are going to sleep in a loft room under the thatch, and the girls downstairs on a pull-out couch. I suppose social etiquette might prevent the girls from sleeping in Mrs Layman's bedroom, but there's not even a mention of it, the impression is that there's just the loft type room upstairs. Even if Enid didn't think Mrs Layman's room worth mentioning, I couldn't help wondering where Wilfrid had been sleeping.

Later on there seems to be a muddle over who owned the island as we are told it was given to the family of a man by King James the Second and, and then Lucas tells us a few pages later that it was bought by a rich man who wanted to hide away all his treasures and that he was killed by the king's troops when he fell foul of them.

I also thought it strange that George didn't know anything about the island, seeing as how she grew up in Kirrin which was presumably just along the coast.

There are also discrepancies such as Julian telling Anne to come with him to climb a tree in the woods, and then a few sentences later it is Dick who is helping her up, and another bit where Dick has his hand on Timmy's collar to stop him growing - why wasn't it George?

However perhaps for me the biggest 'problem' with the book is the timescale. The children don't get the boat until after 3.00 in the afternoon, and the whole adventure, ie going for a swim, hiring a boat, getting swept to the island, Wilfrid turning up, finding the well, Timmy getting shot at, eating a couple of meals etc, etc all happen before it gets dark. We've been told it is the Easter holidays, so surely, even in April it would be dark by about 8.00?

On a positive note, when I read it as a child, I loved the fact that Enid had written that the island was real. At that point I had no idea where it was, or that I'd ever visit it, it was just exciting to think it was a real island. Now that I've visited Brownsea Island, I can't see it is how I pictured Whispering Island, but it may have changed since Enid wrote the book. I did however feel there was a real sense of 'Famous Five territory' when I was there.

There are a couple of good bits of humour, I liked Doris/Cookie's comment about 'wounding Timmy' if he came in the kitchen again, when Dick says his pride had been wounded. I also quite enjoyed Wilfrid getting a good soaking.

I also loved the list of treasures, and would have enjoyed seeing the golden bed and the little jade animals.

However the strongest part of the book I've always felt is the incident of Timmy and the wooden ball - I've read the book a number of times, and yet even on this 'umpteenth' reading, it still sent shivers down my spine. Incredibly moving.

I don't remember noticing any of these little discrepancies though when I read it as a child, which is perhaps the most important point - as it was written for, and enjoyed by children. And for all its mistakes, I hope the sense of nostalgia I have from enjoying it so much as a child will stay with me, so that I can still manage to see all the good points, and shut out the bad ones.

Just as a little trivial observation, I felt the children's meals in this book were really quite shocking, not perhaps helped by the seeming lack of decent cooking facilities in the cottage. I know that when Enid was first married she didn't have much of a clue about how to cook, and wonder whether if left on her own, Enid would have lived almost entirely on bread and tins of food?

[Moonraker]

Pete, let me know what you’ve been drinking and I’ll get some.

[pete9012S]

I really enjoyed your overview Katharine. Thank you.
As a child I did find parts of this book rather strange. The Kirrins all living near each other was one.
And another was having a sleep whilst on the island.

I did overlook these matters though, as I was desperate for my Famous Five 'fix'!!

[pete9012S]

Pete, let me know what you’ve been drinking and I’ll get some.

Always happy to oblige a fellow real ale aficionado!



Enjoyed these last night...
My wife bought them for me for all my chauffeuring her back and forwards from the hospital!

[pete9012S]

But, to get back on topic, I thought Rob's previous thoughts dovetailed nicely with Katharine's and are well worth reading again:

Five Have A Mystery To Solve doesn't seem to have a thread of it's own (though I admit I'm hopeless at finding such threads!) - only a thread it shares with 'Together Again' as 'the last two Famous Five books'. I thought that was a shame, especially if people are searching for a thread about a particular Famous Five, as all the others have threads to themselves I think.

I found a former thread by searching on "Solve" and selecting "Topic titles only", but it wasn't a very long thread so it's good to be able merge this new thread with it! - Anita


I've just reached FHAMTS in my Famous Five complete series read through, and I have to say I'm enjoying it more than I imagined I would. I first read this book after visiting Enid's golf course in Purbeck - and in fact I bought my first edition copy in a second hand book shop in the area. Having read the various descriptions of the golf course, Hill Cottage, etc, we went back there, and the scenes Enid wrote about immediately came to life for me.

Because of the fact this book is set in a real place that I've actually visited, walking across the golf course, standing outside Mrs Layman's cottage, walking across the moors nearby, I have always had a soft spot for it. I didn't read it until I was about 30, but for me the strength of it is in the descriptions of the real life places.

I have never enjoyed the Mystery part of the book so much, and find it really difficult to identify with the fact that Whispering Island is actually Brownsea, because Brownsea is just too well known these days to have a mystery taking place on it. However, in Enid's day I believe it was a private island and was out of bounds to visitors, so Enid probably never visited it personally and had probably heard a lot of stories about the old reclusive woman who lived there and put 'keep Out' notices up everywhere.

A few things have struck me while reading the start of this book - the setting is great - although it's rather confusing to suddenly find that the cousins are all living within a fairly easy bike ride of each other, and maybe even in the same village! It also seems as if Enid is struggling to keep the story on track. Was this because of her deteriorating mental skills? Mrs Layman just appears out of the blue - and none of The Five really seem to know her. She immediately asks the Five if they would like to stay in her cottage. It's explained that her grandson Wilfred is there also, but doesn't want to live there alone while Mrs Layman goes off to nurse a sick relative.

It's a bit odd, therefore, that when The Five cycle to see the cottage, and also Mrs Layman, Mrs Layman is out, and when she does come back, she only comes as far as the gate, has a chat, then gets back in her car and drives away! Has she already abandoned Wilfred? Good job the Five decide to stay there straight away rather than go back in a day or two, as Mrs Layman seems to have gone off without a thought, and also left nothing whatsoever to eat in the larder at the cottage - all a bit odd!

I also noticed a few inconsistencies that needn't be there - Julian's mother tells Mrs Layman she will come with the children to view the cottage, but by the next day she's busy organising a church bazaar, the cottage has absolutely no food in the larder - why would Mrs Layman leave it empty? Mrs Layman says Wilfred hates to be there on his own, and yet he tells the children he sent the daily woman away as he prefers to be alone. Quite a few things seem to be hastily added in by way of explanations or to make things more convenient.

On the other hand, the Famous Five feeling is still there in spades - except maybe it's beginning to feel a bit more tired and over-written than it was during the peak of the series. Still an enjoyable read, but not one of the best.

[Lucky Star]

I have always liked the book. Like the rest of the series I read it first as a child and while the flaws are glaring upon adult re-reads I still have a soft spot for it. It has Famous Five hallmarks aplenty; the seaside, a mysterious island, storms, treasure, baddies, boats.... Somehow it fails to take off in the way that it should though, which nowadays I probably attribute to Enid's failing powers at the time she wrote it.

The list of bloopers listed by Katharine and Rob above is depressingly long. I must re-read it soon myself to see if I pick them all up myself. For what it's worth I think Enid probably just forgot some of the finer points of Kirrin geography and glossed over a few inconvenient issues such as the empty larder and Wilfrid's wish to be alone (or not). She was known to do that in many books in order to get on to the meat of the adventure and she certainly disposes of all the adults very quickly in Mystery to Solve.

The timeline that Katharine has worked out is interesting. I don't think that has ever struck me before but it does indeed amount to a very packed afternoon!

[Julie2owlsdene]

I think I may give this book a re-read, as it's been years since I opened up the pages now I've read your posting Katharine. I remember that somehow this book also reminds me a little of Adventure of the Strange Ruby, probably because of all the figures in the small temple on the island.

[Katharine]

That's interesting Julie. That's a book I haven't read, I'm not even sure if I have a copy of it somewhere.

[Moonraker]

It’s made me all the more determined to never read this book again.

[Boodi 2]

Despite the obvious flaws and discrepancies (which I never noticed when first reading the book as a child) I always liked the atmosphere and setting in Five Have a Mystery to Solve, although I was not very fond of Wilfrid.

[Katharine]

Yes, I agree, the atmosphere and setting of the book are good, and I'm hoping that now I've noticed all the flaws and discrepancies, that the next time I read it, I'll be able to block those out and enjoy it like I used to as a child.

I'm a bit indifferent to Wilfrid, I much prefer him to Junior, who was just plain rude and obnoxious, although I suppose that wasn't entirely his fault, he'd been brought up like that. Tinker was irritating, but I felt sorry for him, as he seemed to have had rather a lonely existence, whereas Wilfrid is neither one thing nor the other.

I think perhaps the book doesn't really give me enough chance to get to know him properly. I can sympathise with him not wanting a bunch of completely unknown teenagers living with him.

[Anita Bensoussane]

I remember that somehow this book also reminds me a little of Adventure of the Strange Ruby, probably because of all the figures in the small temple on the island.

An interesting comparison, Julie. I never warmed to either Five Have a Mystery to Solve or Adventure of the Strange Ruby as the plots didn't grip me (even though they had a few intriguing episodes) and both felt a little weary somehow. I remember being puzzled by some of the discrepancies in Five Have a Mystery to Solve even as a child. I'm not fond of Wilfrid either, Boodi. He blows hot and cold.

[StephenC]

FHAMTS was one of the last FF books I ever read, and of course, compared to some of the great books of the series, like Get Into A Fix, and Mystery Moor, it seemed quite poor. Besides the annoying Wilfred, there was the 'Anne is a tiger' theme, and the situation with Julian, Dick and Anne, now living in close proximity to Kirrin village, which I thought, came across as a bit too contrived. But it still had some interesting ideas, and re-reading it again as an adult, I consider that it stands reasonably well as the penultimate book of the series, just like Look Out, Secret Seven did for the Secret Seven series. I also believe that if Enid had written this book in the mid fifties, with a better supporting character than Wilfred, someone of the standard of Berta or Henry, for example, the result would have been much better.

[timv]

Mystery To Solve was probably the last Famous Five book which I read, some time in my teens and largely just to complete the series; I think the Green Knight edition with the Betty Maxey covers (which I enjoyed and thought very atmospheric) y hadn't been published by the time I moved on to 'older age group' books from reading most of the series at eleven or so. But I remember finding it interesting from knowing the Studland locations, especially the golf course and the view over Poole Harbour and Brownsea Island - though I didn't actually go to Brownsea until much later. I didn't notice most of the mistakes and I liked the 'Anne grows up at last and stands up to the crooks' theme , though I found the storyline a bit awkward. My main surprise was that the children, who are normally reasonably alert, went off to sleep without checking that the boat was hidden as they already knew that the guards would be out looking for them! I found Wilfred a bit odd, like a less well developed version of Philip in the Adventure series - possibly as her powers waned Enid was keen to get on with the
plot and so didn't spend any time developing his character over a few days with the Five.

The 1995-6 TV series version of the episode , which I saw on You Tube not at the time, was not too bad, and gave Wilfred a bit more character - though the final encounter with the guards was a bit 'staged' and unrealistic. This was filmed at Broad Strand beach and island near |Ilfracombe, and was very scenic. But I would have liked to see a version done in 1978, though I don't know if filming was possible on Brownsea that early; the only filming I can recall on Brownsea was 'Springwatch' and 'Autumnwatch' in 2008, plus an ITV interview on a local history programme at the golf course at Studland in around 2004 with Enid's caddy 'Johnny' Lucas.