Pip, Larry and Daisy

[Stephen]

I would say that out of all of Enid's groups of regular crime-fighting children (Famous Five, the Adventure series, the Secret Seven), it is The Five Find-Outers and Dog that is most focussed on one or two at the expense of the others. Fatty was undoubtedly the star of the show with sweet, innocent Bets often coming up with the solution without even realizing it. But what did you think of Philip, Lawrence and Margaret?

When I was a child, I sympathized with Pip a lot because I knew what it was like to be jealous of a younger sister! Fortunately, I've grown out of that but as an adult, I look on Pip as being rather nasty and spiteful at times. He really didn't like it when Bets hit the nail on the head, did he?

Larry was a very likable character. The original head of the Find-Outers simply because of his age, he reluctantly handed over leadership to Fatty but was still capable of reducing him to an emotional state when taking him down a peg or two for his boasting. Whereas Pip would nastily rib Bets through jealousy, Larry would wittily rib Fatty because the "fat, conceited creature" deserved it!

I'm afraid I found Daisy as something of a supporting character. Thanks to Mary Gernat's illustrations, I've got a strong image in my mind of what she looked like, but I always felt she was there merely to respond to the others rather than actually make a mark on proceedings herself.

What does everyone else think of these three?

[Anita Bensoussane]

I feel the same about Pip. He's often scornful of Bets and, although it is a realistic touch for an older brother to resent a cleverer younger sister, I find Pip the least likeable of the five.

While Larry and Daisy are likeable enough, they are very ordinary - and they inevitably appear ultra ordinary next to Fatty. Most of the mysteries could probably be solved just as easily without Daisy participating, but then the balance of the group would change if Bets were the only girl.

It's funny that the children rarely hang out at the Daykin residence. Because of that, Larry and Daisy's parents are shadowy figures and we don't know much about them at all, whereas we do get frequent glimpses of the Trottevilles and Hiltons.

Anita

[Moose]

I found Daisy somewhat peripheral as well. But I suppose that, as someone else said, you really need a mixed group with more than one girl. Fatty and Bets were undoubtedly the main characters and complemented each other well, however.

[Ming]

It's funny that the children rarely hang out at the Daykin residence. Because of that, Larry and Daisy's parents are shadowy figures and we don't know much about them at all, whereas we do get frequent glimpses of the Trottevilles and Hiltons.

Yep, you're right. We never see Mr Daykin but Mrs Daykin is sometimes seen. Mr and Mrs Hilton is seen the most, Mrs Trotteville is also seen but Mr Trotteville is pretty vague too.

Ming

[Kitty]

It's funny that the children rarely hang out at the Daykin residence. Because of that, Larry and Daisy's parents are shadowy figures and we don't know much about them at all, whereas we do get frequent glimpses of the Trottevilles and Hiltons.

Yep, you're right. We never see Mr Daykin but Mrs Daykin is sometimes seen. Mr and Mrs Hilton is seen the most, Mrs Trotteville is also seen but Mr Trotteville is pretty vague too.

Ming

I quite like Mr Trotteville. I agree we don't see much of him, but I like his acerbic nature. It can't be easy being the parent of That Toad of a Boy!

[Moose]

I like the fact that Fatty - btw, is he still called that in the modern editions? I don't have them - has a good deal of liberty and is not bound by the rules and restrictions that the other children are . His parents seem quite liberal and enlightened for their day.

[Lenoir]

Without Daisy, the find outers might not have happened. She was the one who suggested that they should try to solve the mystery of the burnt cottage. Seems that she was the one with the bright ideas at first and then was gradually overshadowed. But she does play a part here and there - perhaps more than we remember off hand.

Larry does keep Fatty in his place most of the time, and he accepts Fatty's takeover with good grace.

[Droitwich Lloyd]

I like it when the Hilton's maid leaves to stay with her Aunt, in tears, after the household receives a spiteful letter regarding her.

Fatty was undoubtably way ahead of the game in comparison to the others, much the same as Peter is in the Secret Seven, except Fatty is much more likable.

[Moose]

Yeah, I think that Fatty is rather a nice chap, despite the pomposity. Maybe he grew out of his arrogance when he was older. Hey, maybe he set up home with Eunice and became a meek henpecked husband type?!

[pete9012S]

I really loved the way Fatty treated young Bets.
So true to life in some households, the way Pip treated her scornfully.

I had a friend called Stephen who was extremely academic and clever, with lots of good qualities, but he treated his younger sister (who was my girlfriend's best friend) like muck.

Stephen's sister was only two or three years younger than him, but he was abhorrent towards her.
I think that is why I loved the way Fatty treated Bets so much. A good role model for gentlemanly behaviour.

[Lucky Star]

Pip can indeed be fairly dislikable at times. He goes too far with his teasing of Bets. To be fair when he does so he usually realises it and gruffly does something to make up for it. As Anita said many years ago it is odd that the gang never ever hangs out at the Daykin's house. we are told that Mr and Mrs Daykin are less strict than the Hiltons so it should be an obvious choice for the kids to hang out at the less strict parents house. But we are told that Pip and Bets have "a fine big playroom". Perhaps Larry and Daisy have no such facility. We never go into their house so we don't know.

I find Daisy a very likable character but it's true that she gets significantly overshadowed as the series goes on. In Missing Man however she gets to wander around the fair with Fatty and for a number of pages it's just the two of them. This is a role that would normally at this stage be filled by Bets. Perhaps Enid realised that Daisy was being left out. Also in Strange Messages she is the one who solves the mystery of who is leaving the notes at Goon's house. Although in that book Larry barely appears at all.

I think as she went on with the series Enid probably made a conscious decision to develop the character of Fatty and to play up his rivalry with Goon. This does result in Fatty, Goon and Bets being the three main characters. It's odd though that if she had not enough "action" for the other three that she should still choose to bring in guest characters like Ern and Eunice both of whom get more page time in their respective books than do Larry and Daisy! We also have I think two instances where Pip and Larry are apparently interchangable since scenes start with one of them and end with the other.

[Splodj]

I like it when the Hilton's maid leaves to stay with her Aunt, in tears, after the household receives a spiteful letter regarding her.

Mrs Moon says to the char-lady Mrs Cockles: "I've got a niece who can come next week, so it won't matter much if she keeps away."

This could have been developed into a practical motive for the Nominus Letters - servants being frightened off to be replaced by Moon's relatives! But although Cockles does not turn up one day when her sister receives one, the idea is not pursued.

[Daisy]

Good points - but I think there are one or two occasions where the Find-Outers meet in a shed in Larry's garden.

[pete9012S]

As usual, you're not wrong Daisy! - From 2012:

The Five Find-Outers -and Dog Tackle the Mystery Sneak Thief (short story)

Unusually, the Find Outers meet in Larry's meeting shed on a few occasions in this short story...

Fatty even takes lemonade & Biscuits, pops Buster in his bicycle basket and cycles round to Larry's shed for the second Find Outers meeting in this short mystery....

Sure you will agree though,this shed is not a patch on Fatty's shed -if the artists illustration is anything to go by!

And just what is Pip sitting on? It looks like a pile of manure!!

https://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/boo ... +Book+1962" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[db105]

I suppose it's a haystack, not manure...