Pip, Larry and Daisy

[timv]

Pip's portrayal may have suffered from Enid losing interest in him as a potential leading character - after all, Bet was the 'naive but shrewd young fan who's not as babyish as she looks', Daisy was the sensible one (though she tends to be marginalised in later books apart from the occasional remark or useful action), and Larry was the good-natured former leader of the group who is a bit upset at Fatty's 'butting in' at first but then accepts that Fatty has more brains and talent. (Given the social set-up of the action, having the eldest boy as the leader was always the expected 'starting point' for the gang of children in a 1940s - 1950s series, and it's to Larry's credit that he doesn't protest at the newcomer's bumptious ways for long.)

Pip does make the occasional useful remark or initiative that helps Fatty from time to time, especially the revelation about the oversize shoes used by the crook in Invisible Thief - though this is more an accidental result of him fooling around for a bit of fun than well-thought-out detective work. But these tail off, and he's clearly not as clever or as able to think 'out of the box' as Bets is ; his 'put-downs' to her as younger and a girl are perfectly normal for sibling rivalry, but he's shown as preferring sport to work at school and not bothering to work too hard or take things seriously. You get the impression that he prefers to do what would now be called 'coasting along' and enjoying himself to bothering to exert himself, possibly as his father has a good job (presumably in a London office given that 'Peterswood' is in the Thames valley near Maidenhead and Marlow and has a good train service to London) and he can probably get Pip a job there too and a good salary when he grows up. He'll take more of an interest in the cricket scores than in the news or in his work; a bit like some PG Wodehouse 'City' types. A normal 'suburban well-off middle-class' family and career path of the 1950s, plus servants and a house by the river with a big garden and a social life for the parents based on dinner-parties and the golf club - no doubt reflecting Enid's real-life neighbours.

In terms of the characters' roles, in any detective series someone has to be the 'plodder' who does the donkey work for the brilliant detective, collects clues, does interviews, and from time to time stumbles across new mysteries - and you get the impression that Pip is more restricted to this role from the start than the others. Plus providing a bit of light relief. As the series went on, the more interesting Bets and the Fatty - Ern dynamic pushed him into the background. But I admit that as a young reader I found him a bit irritating - like one or two of the more easy-going and witty/ popular boys at school who had plenty of money and an office career lined up, played around in class, and did not seem to bother to work or think much!

[Bertie]

Pip was - well as his father said, 'a bit of a pipsqueak.' He did not seem to really grow (physically or mentally) or improve at all during the series. Bets was much more intelligent, interesting and brave.

I don't agree about the 'Bets being more brave' comment. What evidence is there for that? Pip's always wanting to get involved in the detective work, but is excluded more because he's the youngest boy. But there's never a suggestion that I remember of Pip not being as brave or daring as the others in any of the series? He's always wanting to try out disguises, go out late at night whenever It's necessary, etc. He's just always behind Fatty and Larry in the pecking order. But in, say, Hidden House, for example, both he and Larry are determined to be involved despite their parents banning them - and even when Fatty says he'll go to Harry's Folly on his own, they both go saying they couldn't let him risk it alone. So I definitely don't think the young Pip lacked for bravery.

Bets became more interesting than Pip as the series progressed. But that was just a choice of Enid's. She pretty much just sidelines Pip, Larry and Daisy (as this thread is about) and pushes Fatty with Bets, and later Ern, as his sidekick.

Pip is 'annoying' in that he's the one to most complain about his lowly role - and is very frustrated that his little sister gets so much more (mainly because Fatty has a soft spot for her). In that respect, he's more like some of the female characters who regularly complain about being left out, and asking why can't they also do... as well? I guess it could be interpreted differently and taken more as sounding 'whiny' when it comes from a boy for once. .

[Debbie]

I'd agree with Bertie. Pip wants to be more involved, and doesn't lack bravery.

I think I'd go as far as saying that Bets is at the age where she believes Fatty will protect her against anything, so we can't really test her bravery in what we see.

The sibling relationships here are interesting. Larry and Daisy are much closer in age, and so much more of an equal footing. Pip is very much the elder brother. And actually by the mere fact that Bets is "allowed" round with them shows he's got a lot of tolerance for her. I mean, how many siblings of Pip's age would be happy for their younger sibling to hang around with their group? Not many really.
I'm not sure how old Pip is meant to be but there would be a bit of a gulf between those at boarding school and those not.
Also, due to the age difference, Pip would be expected to be responsible for Bets much more than Larry would be for Daisy. I think it's mentioned that Pip has had one or two canings after My Goon had complained, so he's got double the reason to feel he's being left out, and Bets is getting away with it. That is going to sting (pun intended)!!

Bets is one of my favourite characters, for lots of reasons, but I don't think Pip actually treats her badly. Philip's treatment of Dinah is far worse and probably much more realistic of sibling relationships than the lovely one where the older boys always look after and cherish their younger sisters.