Bertie wrote: ↑25 Feb 2024, 11:23
Incidentally, all Pete's (enjoyable) illustrations may have meant you missed my question about Rollo's name - I was wondering if anyone had any idea why it's so different to his siblings? There's Alf, George, Reenie, Pam, Doris, Millie, Reg, Bob, Doreen, Marge, Bert. And then Rollo?
To be honest I never thought much about it, probably because some of the characters have unusual names, such as Theophilus Goon, which also differs from the more mundane Ern, Sid and Perce.
True. Though I've always assumed that Enid deliberately chose quite a mouthful and a grandiose type name to go with Goon's pompous nature. Same as his surname is no coincidence! He's a pompous fool, with an overinflated view of himself, and his name suggests it.
I'm not sure of the deliberate reason why 11 would have more mundane names and then the twelfth would be Rollo? We generally came to the conclusion that Enid picked Rollo when thinking of him as a kid from a fair, and then when rattling off the rest of the family later in the book just went with her usual more mundane names for a family of that class. And she didn't really consider how they fitted in with calling the other one Rollo.
It's just something that's always struck us as strange all these years. But it's seeming like no one else really thought about it at all.
It's interesting to see the four pictures gathered together. Thanks, Pete!
Treyer Evans beats the others hollow. His illustration is beautifully proportioned, drawing the eye in, and there's a touch of comedy in the way he draws Ern in such an awkward position, with Goon towering over him.
Dylan Roberts' picture is dramatic and detailed but Ern doesn't look at all as I imagine him to look (for one thing, he's meant to be fat!)
The illustrations by Jenny Chapple and Rodney Sutton are only adequate in my opinion - nothing to write home about.
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.
"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.
Bertie wrote: ↑25 Feb 2024, 16:44I'm not sure of the deliberate reason why 11 would have more mundane names and then the twelfth would be Rollo? We generally came to the conclusion that Enid picked Rollo when thinking of him as a kid from a fair, and then when rattling off the rest of the family later in the book just went with her usual more mundane names for a family of that class. And she didn't really consider how they fitted in with calling the other one Rollo.
That could well be the reason, Bertie.
pete9012S wrote: ↑25 Feb 2024, 17:06...we're zipping to 1991 to see the Rodney Sutton illustrations in all their glory!!
Anyone like these?
Thanks for posting them, Pete. They're okay but they're too 1990s for me and I thoroughly dislike the photo cover.
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.
"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.
Completely agree about all four illustrations, Anita.
As you say, the first seems to just get it all right - Goon and Ern look right, and Ern's posture is how Enid described and adds to the humour. The second is a nice enough picture out of context, but just doesn't look like how I'd imagine Ern at all. The last two, as you say, are a bit meh. And the final one also feels more like a Secret Seven or Six Bad Boys type illustration to me.
I only had my phone and not too good lights but these are the illustrations in my German edition (by Walter Born). Some I find pretty boring but others I like a lot - like the picture of Fatty as an old man or Fatty and Rollo. As I grew up with these editions that is how I always imagined Goon.
Thanks for posting the Walter Born pictures, Hannah. I like the style of artwork. The illustrations of Goon and of Fatty as an old man are particularly good.
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.
"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.
Boodi 2 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2024, 16:12
To be honest I never thought much about it, probably because some of the characters have unusual names, such as Theophilus Goon, which also differs from the more mundane Ern, Sid and Perce.
A friend of mine has a son called Theo, but he wasn't Christened Theophilus. I must ask her why not!
The library I went to as a child usually had the mystery editions by Erika Klopp and illustrated by Walter Born, but the covers were those of the previous edition.
Bertie wrote: ↑25 Feb 2024, 16:44
I'm not sure of the deliberate reason why 11 would have more mundane names and then the twelfth would be Rollo? We generally came to the conclusion that Enid picked Rollo when thinking of him as a kid from a fair, and then when rattling off the rest of the family later in the book just went with her usual more mundane names for a family of that class. And she didn't really consider how they fitted in with calling the other one Rollo.
It's just something that's always struck us as strange all these years. But it's seeming like no one else really thought about it at all.
The other possibility is that he was either named after someone or named by a different person. Think of the family from One End Street, where you have the first "Lily Rose" then the rest of pretty plain names. Kate, John, Jim, Jo, William, Peggy. Mrs Ruggles names Lily Rose (and she wanted to call her Carnation Lily Rose) and William (after the vicar I think) but the others are named by Mr Ruggles who doesn't approve of such outlandish names for a dustbin man's children.
Although I'm assuming you know all that because the difference in names gets explained in the book? I haven't read it so I don't know, but from what you say it reads like it's fully covered why there was such a distinction in names?
The Rollo one is left unexplained, which is why it's always puzzled me. As you say, someone else could have named him - we (my mum and older brothers as well when they were younger) wondered if it was a fair name / nickname that he'd inherited since going to old man Tallery?
Though the scenario I think most likely, as I mooted earlier, was that Enid just gave him a Fair sounding name as he was a kid in a Fair and then, when rattling off a long list of his siblings later on, just went down her usual run-of-the-mill type names and didn't consider where a name like Rollo fits into all that? If the completely different type of name was intentional, I'd have thought she'd have touched on it as in your example.
Last edited by Bertie on 28 Feb 2024, 11:31, edited 1 time in total.
Sometimes people just name one child with an unusual name but not the other.
My real name (it's not Hannah) is pretty unusual in my generation, before the internet I only knew one person at least 30 years older with the same name and several people of the age of my grandparents. My brother's name is common.
Same with another women I know - her name is so rare that I've never met anyone else with that name (nor heard of someone though Google finds a few) but her sister's name (Katharina) isn't unusual at all.
