Sexist and racist elements?

[Katharine]

That someone could live such an isolated life that they do not know that the terms are hurtful, and don't realize they even need to find out whether the terms are hurtful, could just make them even more racist.

If someone doesn't realise that a term they are using is hurtful, then how are they supposed to know that they need to check it?

[Moonraker]

I can’t plead innocence and naivete like Nigel and the other Brits. I know better. So when Nigel uses his escape hatch to get off with a slap on the wrist, I have no choice but to plead guilty!

If I could understand this comment, I might know what you are talking about!

I'm getting a bit sick and tired of these sort of discussions going round and round in circles

Oh, so am I. In fact, I'm very sad to say that the forums are losing more and more of the charm they once held for me. We seem to have gathered a rather argumentative element in our company. Gone are the halcyon days of sunshine by the riverside and bluebells in the woods. Happier times are replaced by pointless arguments that go round and round in circles - much of which is utter nonsense and bears little resemblance to the the warmth and friendliness created by Enid Blyton.

[Rob Houghton]

Oh, so am I. In fact, I'm very sad to say that the forums are losing more and more of the charm they once held for me. We seem to have gathered a rather argumentative element in our company. Gone are the halcyon days of sunshine by the riverside and bluebells in the woods. Happier times are replaced by pointless arguments that go round and round in circles - much of which is utter nonsense and bears little resemblance to the the warmth and friendliness created by Enid Blyton.

I agree. Usually I think these people are called 'trolls'...a bit like in The Faraway Tree, they cause damage at the roots.

[Liam]

If I could understand this comment, I might know what you are talking about!

Let’s leave it like that, Nigel. It missed its chance to make sense and be funny!

[Rob Houghton]

Considering that I don't believe Enid to have ever been sexist or racist, I think I've contributed enough to this discussion.

[Spitfire]

Personally I feel that a lot of the discussions in this thread aren't particularly useful because they don't add anything to my understanding or appreciation of Enid's work, either in a modern or historical context. Basic disagreements about what constitutes as racist or sexist, or whether something can be called racist if there was no intent, mean that we just stay at square one and don't get anywhere.

One thing that has bothered me a bit about this thread is that the title is 'sexist and racist elements' and yet any attempt at highlighting these elements are taken as an attack on Enid Blyton as being racist or sexist herself. For me, that is an entirely different thing, and another major roadblock to having a sensible discussion.

For example, I sometimes felt (growing up) that Enid's books occasionally reflected what we would nowadays call a 'sexist' outlook, which bothered me a little as it was something I was conscious of as a child, yet I don't believe for a moment that Enid was sexist in the modern sense. I loved Enid's books then, and I have an even greater appreciation and enjoyment of her books now (enhanced by the Enid Blyton Society). So sometimes I'd like to have a sensible, friendly discussion with other forummers about it, but I'm completely put off by the (over)reactions of those who think that this means labelling Enid Blyton as 'sexist'.

Enid Blyton remains incredibly popular; even though her books were written in a different era, they are essentially current, being bought new and read by today's children, and I think that in a way that explains the interest in this thread, since it's entirely natural that we should feel interested and even perhaps a little anxious to reconcile modern preoccupations with the well-loved stories that mean so much to us. So even this strained thread is in a way a testament to the endurance of Enid's writing.

I don't think it's fair to insinuate that anybody here is a troll. Nobody seems to have been provocative for the sake of it; we're all genuine Enid fans who have contributed to other threads about her books.

I feel rather sorry that even Nigel's gentle, jokey post wasn't taken in the spirit that it was obviously intended; personally I welcomed the humour interjected into an otherwise joyless and increasingly fractious thread.

Swatithink, anyway.

And that's finis as far as I'm concerned!

[Daisy]

Thank you for that thoughtful and sensible post Spitfire. Yes, the 'elements' aspect of the title does seem to have passed us by! As someone who was a child in the 40s I can quite categorically say that I never saw anything in the books which caused me to pause and query an attitude. I enjoyed the stories for what they were - exciting things happening to children whose lives, while perhaps being a bit more privileged than mine, were not too different to be unbelievable. Their attitudes were those with which I was familiar. Boys were expected to look out for the (ahem) fairer sex - not that it was very evident in the typical school playground I hasten to add.
One additinal thought on this somewhat tortuous thread... new people join our ranks and may not be aware that much they want to discuss has already been talked about years ago, so a subject is rehashed over and over again. It's good to have fresh input though. We wouldn't be here, discoursing to the nth degree if we didn't appreciate Enid and all she stood for in her own time. We are bound to read the books with the mindset of our own time and it is interesting to see that perceptions have changed over the years. We only find this out when those who see another aspect, say so. But it is how it is said that is so important!

[Moonraker]

However, it seems sad to me, Daisy, that we have 46 pages of this topic which seems to infer that Enid did have racist undertones. Wouldn't it be better to discuss the joy and pleasure she gave, the wonderful descriptive pages of her fantasy books and the warmth and high morals she instilled in her books?

However, feeling that this thread has gone on far too long, like Rob, I won't be assisting in lengthening it more.

[Daisy]

I do agree Nigel, but when some come here to make such charges or suggestions if you like, surely we need to put the alternative view? I have said very little on this thread and don't intend to add to it after this.
There are other threads where we talk of other aspects - the readathons resulting in discussion of a particular book, the fun and puzzle threads, books by other authors which we enjoy and recommend... something for everyone, it is to be hoped.

[Anita Bensoussane]

Yes, as Daisy said, we've masses of threads in which people discuss the joy of the books so I don't see that it matters to have a few threads which are a bit more critical. The only reason I haven't posted in this topic for a while is that I haven't got anything more - for now, at least - to say on the subject.

[Darrell71]

I have a very basic question actually, what exactly are we gonna gain from this thread? Some people will continue to believe that she was racist and some will persist in saying that she wasn't. Does that mean that we will enjoy her books even more or stop enjoying them altogether? No. Does that mean that the books are ever gonna change? I hope not. Does that mean that we will all start to see eye to eye on this subject? I highly doubt that.
Then what, exactly, are we gaining?

[Machupicchu14]

Yeah, I ask the same question. Well said Sunskriti.

[Julie2owlsdene]

As I've said this thread can only go around in circles, and I think it has run it's course and should be locked. I get tired of reading racists threads, when Enid wasn't racist at all.

[John Pickup]

I agree, Julie. There isn't a shred of evidence to prove that Enid was racist. Her writing reflected the attitudes and feelings of that time. I believe that some people won't be happy until they have convinced us all that Enid's books should be banned, burned or butchered.

[KEVP]

We gain many things when we read ANY popular author. One thing we gain, even when we read popular authors like Shakespeare and Dickens as well as Blyton, is some insight into the time in which the author lived and achieved their initial popularity. Any author will have many aspects we can look at, this thread is mostly focused on discussing Blyton's attitudes to sex/gender and race. Which if we study will give us a better understanding of popular attitudes on this subject at the time.

On another level, I think it is obvious that Blyton as well as many other authors I have mentioned here did not become popular because they were racist, but instead despite the racism. I think it is legitimate to say what was Blyton doing so well that led her to become the most translated children's author in history, when she seems to have considered, without thinking about, her own nation's culture to be superior to those cultures and languages her books have been translated into? What is she tapping into that children all over the world have identified with?