The Mountain of Adventure Vs The Secret Mountain

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MJE
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Re: The Mountain of Adventure Vs The Secret Mountain

Post by MJE »

Poppy wrote:I very much enjoyed reading about the scientific entrance to the mountain in The Mountain of Adventure; I wonder if Enid had a scientist as a friend or relative who worked these things out for her, or perhaps he shone in subjects such as Science, too.
     An interesting comparison of the two books, Poppy.
     But I wouldn't see any reason to postulate real scientific input into this book, and would see reason to postulate that there was none, or not enough - because the unfortunate truth is that there would seem to be no scientific basis whatever to the whole idea of an anti-gravity substance in the wings which could levitate against gravity without the continuous input of energy. I forget the details, but I once read a proof, explained in layman's terms that I could at least roughly understand, that if such a substance existed, it would violate the Law of Conservation of Energy, which is probably *the* most sacrosanct law of physics known so far. Somehow, this would make it possible to devise a "perpetual motion" machine (which only cranks and charlatans ever claim to have invented), and from that you could derive a theoretically infinite amount of free energy where there is no energy input, which effectively comes into existence from nowhere. This is as impossible as anything in this universe is, and it's a completely absolute principle that brooks no disagreement or negotiation: there are no known loopholes whatsoever in it.
     If ever even the tiniest violation of this law were discovered, and verified, it would be totally disruptive to hundreds of years of science, since all other scientific theories that depend on this law (probably the majority of them, directly or indirectly) would have to be reworked and recalculated again from the ground up, and it would set science back extremely seriously. Maybe not for hundreds of years, because the reworking and reformulation of a new understanding would probably be accomplished far more quickly than the original one was - but it would still be impossible to overstate the seriousness of the disruption - most scientific knowledge would be completely wiped out, rendered invalid or incorrect, overnight. Scientists would in fact consider it extremely unlikely that this law will ever be found invalid, and it would require extraordinary evidence. (There is an informal principle of reasoning: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".)
     So the anti-gravity wings, which appear to work just by the presence of a substance that repels gravity, seem to be inherently impossible in terms of the laws of physics.
     Maybe we can assume that the wings don't work in the story, and it was just the "King's" mad delusion; but, if I recall correctly, when Philip wears the wings, he does feel lighter, sort of lifted up. That tends to suggest that, in the book, the wings really do work; it's just that there is severe doubt as to whether they will be strong enough to support the weight of a human. So there is a problem here, from a scientific viewpoint. (To be sure, a story like this doesn't need deep science; but if it is to sound quasi-realistic, it must not violate reality in a blatant or obvious way.)

     If Enid Blyton had worked things differently, there might have been a way around it, although I don't know enough about this to be sure of this. But I just recently heard the term "diamagnetic", and heard that some substances, such as the heavy metallic element bismuth, are strongly diamagnetic, and can repel, or be repelled by, a magnet, instead of attracted to it. (Interested people may care to look up "Bismuth" and "Diamagnetism" in Wikipedia.) Apparently this can suspend an object made of the right substances in mid-air indefinitely with no input of energy (there is a picture of it on the Wikipedia page for Diamagnetism). I don't understand how this works, but I would have total confidence that it in no way violates the Law of Conservation of Energy, and that scientists would be able to account for it - even if I wouldn't be capable of understanding the explanation. I'm so confident of this that I would gamble my very life on this with very little hesitation.
     I can't say whether this could be made to operate anti-gravity wings, though: I don't know if the earth's magnetic field would be even nearly strong enough to levitate wings (and body weight supported by them) in mid-air, to permit flying - I somehow doubt it, actually. But if I desperately wanted to write a convincing story about anti-gravity, I would be looking further into this, to see if it could be rejigged to support the idea, but with only a small degree of optimism. However, Enid Blyton's story shows no sign of magnetism being involved, and it seems to be nothing more than an almost magic metal or powder or something that just automatically rises up, away from gravity.
     So I would seriously doubt that Enid Blyton had much scientific advice in this story. It's a pity, in a way. This is a book I like a lot; but this anomaly does weaken it slightly for me.

Regards, Michael.
Last edited by MJE on 16 Dec 2020, 08:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Mountain of Adventure Vs The Secret Mountain

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Oooh, what a difficult choice. For me, it has to be The Secret Mountain, by a whisker!
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Re: The Mountain of Adventure Vs The Secret Mountain

Post by John Pickup »

For me, The Secret Mountain by slightly more than a whisker. :D
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Re: The Mountain of Adventure Vs The Secret Mountain

Post by Daisy »

I would also choose The Secret Mountain over The Mountain of Adventure and like John, it would be by more than a whisker!
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Re: The Mountain of Adventure Vs The Secret Mountain

Post by Lucky Star »

Yes The Secret Mountain for me too. Definitely one of Enid’s most exciting stories.
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Re: The Mountain of Adventure Vs The Secret Mountain

Post by IceMaiden »

Both are brilliant and marvellously imaginative but given it's one of the few books set in wales it has to be the Mountain of Adventure :D
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Re: The Mountain of Adventure Vs The Secret Mountain

Post by timv »

I preferred 'The Secret Mountain', which was the first of these two which I read - I think when I was eight, a year or so before I read 'The Mountain of Adventure'. Both featured inspiring exotic locations, a journey trhouh remote and wild scenery, mysterious goings-on, and unusual 'baddies' - a strange and probably violent mountain tribe in the first and a mad scientist and his thuggish sidekicks in the second - and so had a similar appeal.

Possibly I preferred SM as I read it first, at a time when I had recently seen the film 'Born Free' and so had an interest in and visual images of East Africa. (I was unaware of any discomfort about the treatment of the locals or Mafumu's devotion to Jack ; this seemed normal due to the treatment of African tribes which I had come across in films.) The story was also geared up as a form of 'quest' with a linear narrative heading towards one goal from the start - what had happened to the Arnold parents and were they still alive or rescuable? (As with the 'get Mr Galliano back to save his circus' theme in Circus Days Again which I read about that time, there was also the appeal of one of the children taking direct action while the adults dithered - Prince Paul uses his aircraft and bodyguards to help the Arnolds and Lotta rides off to find Mr Galliano.) The Mountain of Adventure storyline takes longer to build up and at first you don't really know where it's heading beyond David the guide getting lost and strange 'wolves' on the rampage in the mountains. I also found the Welsh characters a bit irritating as they didn't seem to reflect what I knew of my own Welsh rural relatives and David was a bit of a stereotype- though my own relatives were in South not North Wales and possibly Enid had met people like her characters on a holiday in NW.
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Re: The Mountain of Adventure Vs The Secret Mountain

Post by Courtenay »

IceMaiden wrote:Both are brilliant and marvellously imaginative but given it's one of the few books set in wales it has to be the Mountain of Adventure :D
And a thoroughly realistic portrayal it is, look you, whateffer, to gootness! :D :wink: :wink:
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Re: The Mountain of Adventure Vs The Secret Mountain

Post by IceMaiden »

timv wrote:I also found the Welsh characters a bit irritating as they didn't seem to reflect what I knew of my own Welsh rural relatives and David was a bit of a stereotype- though my own relatives were in South not North Wales and possibly Enid had met people like her characters on a holiday in NW.
Actually I would say Enid's Welsh characters sound more like a case of her having met people from the South on holiday in the North as we don't have that sing-songy way of talking :mrgreen: .
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Re: The Mountain of Adventure Vs The Secret Mountain

Post by Irene Malory Towers »

I have just reread the Secret Mountain and was interested in a comparison between it and the Mountain of Adventure as there are so many similarities. These are already mentioned in this thread so I won't repeat. I had not liked the Mountain of Adventure as a kid and felt it quite weak compared to the other Adventures stories. However it has grown on me as an adult partly because I have learnt patience and now I like the slow build up to the actual adventure. It is not just great descriptions that I enjoyed but also the interaction between the characters, developing them further. Consequently I prefer the Mountain of Adventure, mainly because the characters are stronger and we can differentiate between them. In the subsequent Secret series after Island there is no differentiation between Peggy and Nora, and even Mike is hardly mentioned. Jack and Paul are the only ones that play an active part it seems. Both have a few flaws, David running away because he sees a black face is weak and the ending of of Secret with the kids chattering away to Dimmy somehow is an anticlimax. And both stories are incredibly unrealistic in different ways. However they are very exciting with Prince Paul and Philip narrowly avoiding death, and the escapes are probably the most tense and thrilling of any found in Enid Blyton's books. For me the Mountain of Adventure wins by more than a whisker !! as I much prefer the characters.
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Re: The Mountain of Adventure Vs The Secret Mountain

Post by pete9012S »

Enjoyed you post Irene, thank you.

Probably time for me to have a re-read of these two back to back again.
Both good stories, but Secret Mountain just nudges it for me I think, as I have such fond memories of reading it!
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Re: The Mountain of Adventure Vs The Secret Mountain

Post by Irene Malory Towers »

The plot is better in the Secret Mountain but the characters are better in the Mountain of Adventure. And as I have the Stuart Tresilian illustrations in the Adventure book the illustrations are better. Both have incredibly exciting endings. I always remember as a child the tension and relief when Bill Cunningham shouts out don't forget Bill Smugs.
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Re: The Mountain of Adventure Vs The Secret Mountain

Post by Inspector Jenks »

I absolutely loved both of those books as a child. The idea of a mountain seemingly normal on the outside but containing all kinds of secrets really grasped my imagination. Easy to conflate the two books; re-reading “The Mountain of Adventure” years later as an adult, I kept wondering when the solar eclipse would come along, and was quite baffled when it never did, having completely forgotten about the other book!
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