Travellers in Blyton books

[Deej]

Seeing as we have a thread on travellers, I thought a discussion on the portrayal of travellers in Blyton books, especially the FF would be a good idea?

[Lucky Star]

There were no travellers in Blyton books. She portrayed Gypsies who are a completely different breed of people, being of Romany origin. The travellers who wreak such havoc around the UK and Ireland nowadays are of Irish origin but quite different to "regular" Irish people. They have an extremely bad reputation which is richly deserved since they basically care about nobody but themselves. They pay no taxes, ignore all laws which do not suit them and cause a heck of a lot of trouble just about everywhere they go. If challenged they react violently. Trust me; I was unfortunate enough to grow up in their vicinity. I suppose to a certain extent they feel put upon due to the mistrust that they in turn receive from settled society but it's very hard to put much trust in people who are very likely to steal, lie and cheat from you.

Blyton's gypsies by contrast are usually portrayed positively as happy go lucky rough diamonds who almost always start out surly and unfriendly but later reveal their true worth by doing the right thing. This is best seen I think in Five Have a Wonderful Time where the initial negative reactions of the gypsies to the FF's presence undergoes a 180 degrees turn and they end up best friends and willing helpers. Of course it's largely due to Jo who will be Enid's best known gypsy character, the archetypal toughie with a heart of gold.

[Soenke Rahn]

Yes another origin but also in vans, but I would say this thread will also good for it: http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/foru ... 74&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
maybe a rename to enlarge the topic A merge?

[MJE]

     I thought "travellers" was just a politically-correct name for gypsies - although why "gypsies" was ever considered offensive in the first place, I don't know. And if it is offensive, then why isn't "travellers" also offensive, and thus in need of being replaced by yet a new term?

Regards, Michael.

[Soenke Rahn]

Sometimes ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveler" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Deej]

There were no travellers in Blyton books. She portrayed Gypsies who are a completely different breed of people, being of Romany origin. The travellers who wreak such havoc around the UK and Ireland nowadays are of Irish origin but quite different to "regular" Irish people. They have an extremely bad reputation which is richly deserved since they basically care about nobody but themselves. They pay no taxes, ignore all laws which do not suit them and cause a heck of a lot of trouble just about everywhere they go. If challenged they react violently. Trust me; I was unfortunate enough to grow up in their vicinity. I suppose to a certain extent they feel put upon due to the mistrust that they in turn receive from settled society but it's very hard to put much trust in people who are very likely to steal, lie and cheat from you.

Blyton's gypsies by contrast are usually portrayed positively as happy go lucky rough diamonds who almost always start out surly and unfriendly but later reveal their true worth by doing the right thing. This is best seen I think in Five Have a Wonderful Time where the initial negative reactions of the gypsies to the FF's presence undergoes a 180 degrees turn and they end up best friends and willing helpers. Of course it's largely due to Jo who will be Enid's best known gypsy character, the archetypal toughie with a heart of gold.

LS, I always thought gypsies was an offensive, not very politically correct way of describing travellers.

Personally, I have had no bad experience of travellers but I know they cause a lot of disruption to many neighbourhoods in terms of mess, law-breaking and crime . I don't know if they are all like this or whether there is just a perception partly contributed to by the media that all travellers are the same. Surely they have to live somewhere?

Gypsies are portrayed very positively on the whole by Blyton. In Five Have a Wonderful Time, there was a travelling fair and they were very hostile to the children at first and wanted them out of the camp site on to the field but they were soon friendly when they found out the children were friends with Sniffer, inviting them to their fair and helping rescue the children and the scientists from the tower. Sniffer and Jo were portrayed very positively as well, brave, loyal and courageous.

The only negative representation of gypsies I can think of is in Mystery Moor when Sniffer's dad and his friend steal hundred-dollar notes from the US in packets dropped down from planes.

Do the Barnies and Dirty Dick and Dan class as travellers?

There are travellers. Surely the travelling fair in Five Have a Wonderful Time is a group of travellers? Politically correct.

[Deej]

     I thought "travellers" was just a politically-correct name for gypsies - although why "gypsies" was ever considered offensive in the first place, I don't know. And if it is offensive, then why isn't "travellers" also offensive, and thus in need of being replaced by yet a new term?

Regards, Michael.

I think you're right about travellers being a politically correct name for gypsies. That's what I always thought.

There are travelling folk in Blyton books, lots of them!

[Katharine]

According to my Oxford English Dictionary from 1985:-

gypsy - member of a wandering dark-skinned people in Europe

So probably a different group to the predominantly Irish Travellers.

However, it also says under 'Traveler' (note the one 'l') that it's a US term for gypsy

[MJE]

There are travelling folk in Blyton books, lots of them!

     They were always called gypsies in any Blyton books I owned, but my original copies were all printed before 1970 - and most of the books I buy now are before then, too (replacing the copies I was persuaded to part with around 1970 or so). I think I have seen "travellers" mentioned in more recent copies I've looked at briefly in shops; but I don't ever buy those. Talking about the "travellers" who frequent Mystery Moor, for instance, just wouldn't be the same!
     As for the people in "Five Have a Wonderful Time", I recall they were referred to as "fair folk", so I wonder if they were really gypsies at all, as someone previously suggested. I would have thought of them more as people coming from circus families, who may or may not include gypsies. Maybe not, if it was true that gypsies kept to themselves and didn't readily mix with those outside their own community. To be sure, Jo clearly knew these people, so I guess some interaction must have taken place.
     But, for that matter, was Jo a gypsy anyway? I know people often refer to her as one; but do any of the books specifically call her that, or depict any of her relatives or friends as gypsies? When I think about her father in "Five Fall Into Adventure" (I forget whether that was Jake or Simmy - I seem to get those two mixed up), I don't somehow visualize him as a gypsy, despite the fact that he had a caravan. Maybe that's just because his home life or general life-style was not mentioned much in the book, whereas the gypsies in "Five Go to Mystery Moor" are very definitely portrayed as gypsies in some detail, with some mentions of gypsy traditions and culture.

Regards, Michael.

[Katharine]

I never thought of the word gypsy being changed in the books, I'll have to try and check my children's copies which are about 5 - 10 years old.

I don't think I ever thought of the fair folk as being gypsies though, I just thought they were 'ordinary people' who happened to work in fairs rather than shops or offices. Assuming perhaps that they'd do a tour with a circus and then go back to their houses.

[Fiona1986]

Dirty Dick and Dan class as travellers?

Dirty Dick lived with his mother, so no he's not a traveller. By Dan, do you mean Tiger Dan? He was with a circus, so it depends if you class a circus group as travellers in general.

[Deej]

I never thought of the word gypsy being changed in the books, I'll have to try and check my children's copies which are about 5 - 10 years old.

I don't think I ever thought of the fair folk as being gypsies though, I just thought they were 'ordinary people' who happened to work in fairs rather than shops or offices. Assuming perhaps that they'd do a tour with a circus and then go back to their houses.

I think in Five Fall Into Adventure Jo and the travelling folk are living in the forests where the children disappear in their attempt to find George.

Sniffer is definitely with travellers on Mystery Moor as well.

But I see all the circuses as travelling fair folk like you. Blyton seemed to base a lot of her books around a circus or fair. I imagine such events were very popular back then.

[Francis]

There are various kinds of wandering peoples. Those who work in fairs, circus employees, traditional gypsies (originally from India) and travellers (not sure if tinkers still exist - they were also from Ireland). Enid was quite unusual in portraying gypsies in a positive light - my mother always regarded them with suspicion (but than she was snatched by a gypsy woman when she was a baby!).

[Deej]

Dirty Dick lived with his mother, so no he's not a traveller. By Dan, do you mean Tiger Dan? He was with a circus, so it depends if you class a circus group as travellers in general.

I meant Tiger Dan and Lou. I would class both of them as travelling folk and obviously of the more dodgy sort. I guess travelling folk were different in the 1930s/1940s and did have a better name because they tended to be more around circuses and not being a nuisance like many are today. I think that reflects in Blyton's books.

Dirty Dick wasn't a traveller.

[Lucky Star]

Blyton more usually depicted circus or fair folk in her books rather than actual Gupsies (or Roma to give them their proper name). The Roma originated in India and Iran but these days seem to live mainly in eastern Europe, particularly Romania. From being a mostly insular people who lived a nomadic lifestyle they seem to be increasingly turning to petty crime and begging. The newspapers are full of articles about their aggressive begging tactics, pickpocketing, atm scams etc. I know not everything you read is true but there is also no smoke without fire. Several years ago I was in Paris and was utterly plagued by them at the main tourist sites. The police move them on but are powerless to do much and they are back within hours.

Thye are not the same ethnicity as the Irish travellers who specialise in buying plots of land and then illegally building permanent settlements on them.

Enid generally portrays travelling people (without making any real distinction between the groups) positively. Possibly she was inclining towards the romantic view of them which has long been popular across europe.

Here's the wikipedia guide to the Irish Traveller variety.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;