Why did the Secret Seven not want Susie?

[Irene Malory Towers]

Jack seems to have a poor memory and constantly fails to memorise 2 words every month without resorting to writing it down nor saying it at night in his sleep. How would he manage in today's age where we constantly need pins and passwords and user iDs. However he more than makes up for it in his deducing skills shown in Shock for the Secret Seven. I would have dismissed the postie instantly. (Hope I have not given the game away to those who have not read this great story, one of the best of the Secret Seven in my opinion)

[Barnard]

The problem with Shock For The Secret Seven is that the plot is virtually identical to the far superior and earlier Find-Outers story The Invisible Thief.

[Irene Malory Towers]

EB did reuse many of her tricks as did Agatha Christie and probably so many other prolific writers. I am reading Ngaio Marsh books and I notice lots of re-used ideas and themes from one book to the next, so much so that it is hard to tie up the plot with the title. I think even at the time of reading Invisible Thief as a child I realised it would be easy to put on big boots and big gloves. I suppose one just runs out of ideas and I have to say that I have never even attempted to write one book so I really should not criticise. Going back though to those 2 books - the trick that the villain used is the same but the feel of the books is completely different. The Shock to the Secret Seven contains in its 100 pages or so expulsion of a member of the group, followed by his resignation, theft of the family and much loved dog and almost a member himself Scamper, and theft of lots of dogs including Matt's companion, and all done by the trusted Postie. And I have said this before : the passage re-uniting Shadow with Matt is incredibly moving but not overly sentimental and makes this book very memorable (or at least for me it does). The Invisible Thief is a run of the mill Five Find-outers story, which by dint of that series being better than the Secret Seven, is a good story but for me not the best of the Find-Outers. It does contain some very humorous passages mainly from the antics of Good and Fatty disguising themselves. So for me I feel Shock to the Secret Seven is a better book compared to The Invisible Thief.

[Anita Bensoussane]

Interesting points, Barnard and Irene. I've never made a connection between The Mystery of the Invisible Thief and Shock for the Secret Seven before but I'll have to read them one after the other sometime, to see how they compare.

[Moonraker]

I haven't either! I will have to do the same, Anita!

[Moonraker]

It's strange that "narcissistic personality disorder" should involve "a deep need for excessive admiration and attention" because the word "narcissistic" puts me in mind of Narcissus of Greek mythology, who is actually known for rejecting any attention from others and needing nobody but himself, gazing admiringly at his own reflection in a pool until he died!

Exactly! I think if you are so in love with yourself, as you find yourself so beautiful you expect excessive admiration and devotion from everyone. As for the dictionary medical definition, I imagine it is based on self-worship and devotion.

Narcissism is a self-centered personality style characterized as having an excessive interest in one's physical appearance or image and an excessive preoccupation with one's own needs, often at the expense of others.

Narcissism exists on a continuum that ranges from normal to abnormal personality expression.[3] While there exists normal, healthy levels of narcissism in humans, there are also more extreme levels of narcissism, being seen particularly in people who are self-absorbed, or people who have a pathological mental illness like narcissistic personality disorder.

Wikipedia

[pete9012S]

I think it's a bit unfair to label Peter as a narcissist, when the simple term 'dictator' would suit just as well!

I have always thought Colin should have been at least a temporary, stand in leader from time to time.
Just think of all his leadership skills for a moment..

[Anita Bensoussane]

I think if you are so in love with yourself, as you find yourself so beautiful you expect excessive admiration and devotion from everyone. As for the dictionary medical definition, I imagine it is based on self-worship and devotion.

Yes, it's probably just based on the general idea of loving oneself - though Narcissus in Greek mythology did not expect or welcome admiration or devotion from others.

[Wolfgang]

The usual change of meaning imho . Just think what gay used to mean and in which context it is used mostly today.

[IceMaiden]

Exactly! I think if you are so in love with yourself, as you find yourself so beautiful you expect excessive admiration and devotion from everyone. As for the dictionary medical definition, I imagine it is based on self-worship and devotion.

Narcissism is a self-centered personality style characterized as having an excessive interest in one's physical appearance or image and an excessive preoccupation with one's own needs, often at the expense of others.

Narcissism exists on a continuum that ranges from normal to abnormal personality expression.[3] While there exists normal, healthy levels of narcissism in humans, there are also more extreme levels of narcissism, being seen particularly in people who are self-absorbed, or people who have a pathological mental illness like narcissistic personality disorder.

Wikipedia

That doesn't describe Peter at all to me. He wasn't obsessed with his appearance or image, he simply wanted to keep the club running efficiently and as I already said, Jack's total lack of ability to keep his sister in check would get get on anyone's nerves. Ifyou know you have a spiteful wretch of a sister who constantly peeps, prys and listens to other's conversations to cause trouble you don't practice a secret password she's not supposed to know by saying it out loud in your room! Really it's not surprising Peter gets exasperated with someone like that, who wouldn't!

[pete9012S]

.

Let's give Peter a free pass with Jack because Jack did not have his sister under control.

Reading this book today, I noticed the way Peter spoke to Colin & George as well as Jack:

" Good guy you've got there! " said the man and threw
sixpence on to Peter's tummy.
" Colin! Jack! You're NOT to let people prod me like that," said Peter, in a fierce whisper. " It
jolly well hurt."
" Well, how are we to stop them ? " said Colin, also in a whisper.

" Anyway, you've made quite a bit of money," said George, in Peter's ear. " People think you're
jolly good, and we've got plenty of pennies and a few sixpences."
Peter grunted. He was cross with the others.

Colin:
Or perhaps he's an escaped prisoner, in hiding. Gosh, Peter, this is super! "
"Wheel me to our shed," commanded Peter...
"Buck up. The girls will be there already, and George and Jack will join us as soon as they can. Do buck up! ..

Obviously, because Peter was a good, organised leader he could speak to his underlings like ####.

[Debbie]

I think though with the first two you can understand him being cross. He's not able to object himself without giving away his disguise, so it's not unreasonable for him to be put out that they weren't protecting him from being prodded. He was probably also scared that he would instinctively react another time and give the game away.

In the last one, I read it as more he's excited and wanting to get on. Again he's at their mercy because he can't just get up and run himself, and he's probably longing to move and talk properly without the risk of being seen.
If you change the word "commanded" then it reads differently.

"Wheel me to our shed," Peter called excitedly. "Buck up, the girls will be there already."

[pete9012S]

More text changes needed to 'enhance' and 'soften' Peter's personality:

Good Old Secret Seven:
Peter felt the twigs. Yes, they were certainly still warm — and what was more, it looked as if someone had stamped out the little fire in a hurry, for it was curiously flattened!
'Talk in loud voices about ordinary things,' commanded Peter.

I'm sure the rabble Peter presided over needed to be commanded.
How did he put up with such a group of no hopers..

[IceMaiden]

You can be commanding and assertive without being angry though. Just because Peter comanded them to wheel him back to the shed it doesn't necessarily mean he was cross, it could have been said in an excited eager tone. As for being prodded I'd guess the crossness was due to alarm. He probably hadn't considered that someone would poke him and afraid that when they did they might realise he wasn't really a guy which would blow their cover. I really don't think Peter is any less assertive than Fatty or Julian but being older they have a better way of going about it.

[Irene Malory Towers]

I think Peter did not have the maturity to display patience that the others in particular had. Fatty often infused his commands with humour, eg in the Mystery of the Invisible Thief he gets Larry to phone up Mr Goon and excitedly tell him that he had spotted the burglar and described Mr Goon in disguise in very unflattering terms !! Humour can be a more effective way of teaching a lesson than barked out commands !