Which characters are best-balanced?
- MJE
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Which characters are best-balanced?
In recent discussions, debates have come up about certain characters, like Julian in the Famous Five, and opinions about differed about them. For instance, is Julian kind, responsible, and reliable? - or a dictatorial, sexist, classist snob? And is George headstrong and obstinate but honest and courageous? - or a spoilt brat? And there has been discussion about their treatment of Edgar Stick in the third book, with some saying it reflects very poorly on the Five.
There have been similar discussions previously about the treatment of Snubby by the others in the Barney series; Tom in the Adventurous Four was described by someone recently as a selfish, food-obsessed idiot; Peter in the Secret Seven is almost a little Nazi according to some; Prince Paul is pretty insufferable to some; Larry in the Find-Outers is dull and boring, Pip mean to Bets - and so on, and so on.
When I was a child, I was probably blind to some of this, or minimized it, and tended to regard the main character children as fine and upstanding, decent people, well-balanced, and all that. When I was aware of them doing unpleasant things, I was able to rationalize it, to put it in a context which didn't exactly make it good, but at least not so bad. But when you look at it critically, there are grounds to suppose the characters may not have been so nice as this.
What I am wondering is this: what Blyton characters (or groups of characters) are overall the nicest, the best-balanced, the most admirable? And, on the other side, which ones are most flawed, most unadmirable?
I just thought this might be an interesting thing to discuss. Some of Enid Blyton's main characters may possibly be somewhat less than the paragons we might be tempted to think of them as.
Regards, Michael.
There have been similar discussions previously about the treatment of Snubby by the others in the Barney series; Tom in the Adventurous Four was described by someone recently as a selfish, food-obsessed idiot; Peter in the Secret Seven is almost a little Nazi according to some; Prince Paul is pretty insufferable to some; Larry in the Find-Outers is dull and boring, Pip mean to Bets - and so on, and so on.
When I was a child, I was probably blind to some of this, or minimized it, and tended to regard the main character children as fine and upstanding, decent people, well-balanced, and all that. When I was aware of them doing unpleasant things, I was able to rationalize it, to put it in a context which didn't exactly make it good, but at least not so bad. But when you look at it critically, there are grounds to suppose the characters may not have been so nice as this.
What I am wondering is this: what Blyton characters (or groups of characters) are overall the nicest, the best-balanced, the most admirable? And, on the other side, which ones are most flawed, most unadmirable?
I just thought this might be an interesting thing to discuss. Some of Enid Blyton's main characters may possibly be somewhat less than the paragons we might be tempted to think of them as.
Regards, Michael.
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- pete9012S
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Re: Which characters are best-balanced?
Good topic MJE!
I think Andy the fisher boy in The Adventurous Four is a very balanced chap.
Good Scottish hard working fisher stock,with a strict ,but fair father.
I would trust a lad like Andy with my children,as I feel he could be relied on to be sensible and careful even when no one was around to supervise or monitor him or his friends.
Regards
Pete
I think Andy the fisher boy in The Adventurous Four is a very balanced chap.
Good Scottish hard working fisher stock,with a strict ,but fair father.
I would trust a lad like Andy with my children,as I feel he could be relied on to be sensible and careful even when no one was around to supervise or monitor him or his friends.
Regards
Pete
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- Lucky Star
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Re: Which characters are best-balanced?
The Adventure kids are a nice and well balanced bunch. You've got a timid one, a fiery one, a strong one and a sensible one. Individually they may have their bad points but overall they are the most capable and interesting bunch of kids Blyton ever thought up.
Bets from the FFO always strikes me a sbeing very well balanced as well. At least after the first few books where she is very much portrayed as the baby. She is pretty sensible, quite brave and grasps new ideas quickly. Theproblem with nice well balanced characters is that they are sometimes a bit boring. I think Enid Blyton recognised very well that the stand-out characters were always going to be the loud, brash ones or at least the ones who were a bit differant. Thus today we tend to remember Fatty and Barney and George as being Enid's best loved characters even though they all have flaws. Actually I suppose Barney is pretty well balanced overall; he has lots of experience and a fairly wise head on his shoulders.
Jack from the Secret Series is another good example of this. He seems to know everything which is of ant importance and is a pretty sensible, capable sort as well. I dont think any of the SS are particularly well balanced. As a group they shuffle along quite well but as individuals they dont.
Good topic idea.
Bets from the FFO always strikes me a sbeing very well balanced as well. At least after the first few books where she is very much portrayed as the baby. She is pretty sensible, quite brave and grasps new ideas quickly. Theproblem with nice well balanced characters is that they are sometimes a bit boring. I think Enid Blyton recognised very well that the stand-out characters were always going to be the loud, brash ones or at least the ones who were a bit differant. Thus today we tend to remember Fatty and Barney and George as being Enid's best loved characters even though they all have flaws. Actually I suppose Barney is pretty well balanced overall; he has lots of experience and a fairly wise head on his shoulders.
Jack from the Secret Series is another good example of this. He seems to know everything which is of ant importance and is a pretty sensible, capable sort as well. I dont think any of the SS are particularly well balanced. As a group they shuffle along quite well but as individuals they dont.
Good topic idea.
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Re: Which characters are best-balanced?
Funny you mention Jack, because I pick Janet. She's intelligent, she's kind, she seems reasonably brave, and although she follows Peter's lead, she doesn't let him walk all over her.
Linnie Longfield from the Six Cousins books is very well-balanced, although it seems like cheating to mention her because Blyton made her that way on purpose as a foil to Rose. But she's a great cook, mother, wife, housekeeper, farm help and her hobbies include classical music and poetry. What faults does she have?
Linnie Longfield from the Six Cousins books is very well-balanced, although it seems like cheating to mention her because Blyton made her that way on purpose as a foil to Rose. But she's a great cook, mother, wife, housekeeper, farm help and her hobbies include classical music and poetry. What faults does she have?
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Re: Which characters are best-balanced?
Linnie 's treatment of Jane is really harsh and comparing her to Melisande did not seem fair to me.
My vote would go to the kids from adventure series, none of them have any glaring faults and all of them come across as pretty real people and not just paper cutouts like Peggy in Secret series, Barbara in Secret seven or the twin girls in adventurous four.
I also like David and Delia the twins in house at the corner. They are intelligent, kind hearted, hardworking and helpful.
My vote would go to the kids from adventure series, none of them have any glaring faults and all of them come across as pretty real people and not just paper cutouts like Peggy in Secret series, Barbara in Secret seven or the twin girls in adventurous four.
I also like David and Delia the twins in house at the corner. They are intelligent, kind hearted, hardworking and helpful.
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Re: Which characters are best-balanced?
I liked Lucy Oriell a lot. I wish that we had seen more of her. She was, as one of the twins observed, really good and yet not unpleasant about it like Prudence was in trying to be good.
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Re: Which characters are best-balanced?
Deffo. If I had to be marooned on an island, they're the bunch of kids that I'd most like to be with. The Find-Outers are fine, but Daisy (sorry, Daisy), Larry, Pip and Bets are pretty pathetic!centcat wrote: My vote would go to the kids from adventure series, none of them have any glaring faults and all of them come across as pretty real people...
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- MJE
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Re: Which characters are best-balanced?
I think Dinah would get rather difficult to live with, though - so touchy and irritable. And I'm not a great animal-lover either, especially close-up (I won't even enter a field where a horse is; I'm quite scared of them), so I might find Philip a bit of a trial, although he's agreeable enough as a person.Moonraker wrote:Deffo. If I had to be marooned on an island, they're the bunch of kids that I'd most like to be with.centcat wrote:My vote would go to the kids from adventure series, none of them have any glaring faults and all of them come across as pretty real people...
I would probably find the Famous Five quite agreeable to be on an island with. I don't seem to have the problems with Julian some do; and I think I might have problems with George (who wouldn't?), but I have a feeling we'd at least understand each other underneath that, somehow.
I guess the problem there is that Fatty does outshine the others. Fatty is definitely an interesting character, and quite likable despite his flaws, and the others are possibly all right, but just look a bit dull in comparison. As a group they're probably not all that well-balanced, whereas other groups like the Famous Five and the Adventure kids are probably more nearly equal (despite obvious differences).Moonraker wrote:The Find-Outers are fine, but Daisy (sorry, Daisy), Larry, Pip and Bets are pretty pathetic!
Similarly, I think Roger and Diana Lynton are probably quite okay, probably nice, normal kids, but a bit outshone by Barney, who obviously dominates that group. Snubby is a bit of a different case - I have to say not all that attractive a boy - superficial and irritating, insensitive and selfish, but he seems to act as light relief in the books, because he can be quite funny at times. Some might attribute his shortcomings to his lack of parents and a stable family of his own, to be sure. (At times he seems to be portrayed as spending holidays with various relatives, but at other times the text seems to suggest he lives mainly with the Lyntons. But during school time he seems to be at boarding school, like Roger and Diana.)
I seem to have less of an impression of the Secret series kids or the Adventurous Four, and the Secret Seven are probably the most balanced, equal group of all: all of them equally nondescript. I guess the brevity of the books and the need to write shorter, simpler stories is partly responsible for that: an interesting plot and character development both take up a lot of space, and there wasn't room for lots of both of them in the Secret Seven books.
But overall, I'd say the best-balanced group (in a positive way, not the nondescript way of the Secret Seven) are probably either the Famous Five or the Adventure series children.
Regards, Michael.
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Re: Which characters are best-balanced?
I am a girl who can't stand being told to do this that and the other especially if the reason is "this is how it is supposed to be".
I would probably be at loggerheads with Julian every minute of the day.
The only amicable characters in Famous five are Dick and Timmy.
I understand that these books were written in time when there were different norms than there are today but George's perpetual "I wish I was a boy" does get irritating especially towards the end of the series.
same with Anne and her " I don't want to have adventures" tagline.
I would probably be at loggerheads with Julian every minute of the day.
The only amicable characters in Famous five are Dick and Timmy.
I understand that these books were written in time when there were different norms than there are today but George's perpetual "I wish I was a boy" does get irritating especially towards the end of the series.
same with Anne and her " I don't want to have adventures" tagline.
- 70s-child
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Re: Which characters are best-balanced?
Personally, I would say that the best-balanced ones are also the most boring - Lucy from St. Clare's, the O'Sullivan twins after the first book, or even Larry from FFO. They seem to recede into the background because they are so good, and so dull and colorless. The most exciting characters across the different books are those with negative traits - whether they are faults of temper, snobbery, high-handedness, cowardice, or spite. They stand out as being more true to life, because that's how real people are. So Snubby may come across as annoying (not to me though! I am a Snubby fan), but I find that he is also very realistically portrayed - I would expect 11 year old kids to be like that, rather than all saintly and good (and dreary). Likewise with Dinah. I have made this point several times before - I have never found anything unusual with her picking fights with her brother, or getting angry at being tormented. I would expect real people to respond the same way in that situation. The same holds for people like Alison, Susie, Fatty, or Julian. In real life, they would all be tiresome to some extent, but that's how people are.
I got the first two, but the next two threw me off. Who among Philip and Jack would you say is strong, and which one is sensible?Lucky Star wrote:The Adventure kids are a nice and well balanced bunch. You've got a timid one, a fiery one, a strong one and a sensible one.
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Re: Which characters are best-balanced?
I confess to finding Dinah jolly irritating at times but then I also find Lucy Ann a bit drippy and worshipping. Of the two boys I probably like Philip the best but there's not much in it.
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Re: Which characters are best-balanced?
I've been reading my Barney mysteries the past couple of days, and Diana is well balanced. She doesn't let the boys boss her about, which is refreshing.
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Re: Which characters are best-balanced?
Yes, I think you're right. From what I can remember she doesn't scare as easily as a lot of the other female characters, but she doesn't have a chip on her shoulder about not being able to do the same things as boys.mynameisdumbnuts wrote:I've been reading my Barney mysteries the past couple of days, and Diana is well balanced. She doesn't let the boys boss her about, which is refreshing.
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Re: Which characters are best-balanced?
One thing I like about the Barney R mysteries is that there's no sense any of the four is a filler, so I think they're all pretty well-rounded.. They all contribute pretty equally to the adventure. None of them is a certain type, like in the Adventure series or the Famous Five. (Well, I suppose Snubby's the pesky one and Barney's the cool one with the monkey, but not in the way, say, Dinah's the fiery one and Jack's the birdy one and Julian's the solemn leader one, etc.)
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Re: Which characters are best-balanced?
Interesting comments, Mynameisdumbnuts. It's notable that Diana is the only main girl character in the Barney/'R' Mysteries. Since the youngest (Snubby) is a boy, that means there's no place in that series for a younger "girly" girl who doesn't like adventures/constantly asks for explanations/clings to or hero-worships one of the older ones. If there's anyone who does come across as something of "a filler", it's Roger. He plays his part in the adventures all right, but I feel we don't get to know him as well as we know the others. In Rockingdown he's described as a nature lover and I think there may be a brief reference to that in Rilloby Fair as well, but there's no evidence of it elsewhere and by the time we get to Ragamuffin he's mocking Diana for harping on about the essay she has to write on 'Birds I Have Seen'. I think Diana changes as the series progresses too - though maybe she's just growing up. In the early books she's described as "harum-scarum" and impatient, but in the last two or three books she comes across as much more ladylike and, in Ragamuffin, she spends a lot of time keeping Miss Pepper company.
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