Looking For Fatty & co. in Peterswood/Bourne End

[Rob Houghton]

Very interesting. It would certainly be good to see an article in a future Journal, as well as a talk at the EB Day. Looking forward to it - and some pictures, hopefully.

[Viking Star]

Exciting stuff, Viking Star. Keep it coming! (I didn't mean to put you under such pressure to get your account written up, though!)

Anita

You couldn't have put me under pressure in a nicer way!

I'm very frustrated at not being able to upload the pictures. I think the photos would add a lot to the report. I tried again for over an hour last night, and couldn't remember what, if anything, I was doing differently from when I loaded up the Mangerton 'photos. The re-sizing tool wasn't interested them.

I emailed Ming for help (she was able to assist last time round), and it turns out there was a fault with the re-sizing tool. Ming has now put me on to a re-sizing tool on a different web site (thanks Ming!). I'm still at work, so can't do anything about it at the moment.

Re. Moonraker's comment, I had intended to take a friend's camera with me which has a video facility. However as previously mentioned, I left in a rush! I'll take the camera next time, which should also mean better quality photos.

I'd be quite happy (honoured) to write an article for the journal if people (and Tony in particular) think it would be of interest. There's a lot more to say and debate re. the Bourne End/Peterswood connections. Similarly the EB Day if it were appropriate. That said, all this was initiated by Green Hedges, so perhaps he might write something.

At the moment I think there's a lot more work to be done and perhaps time needed to let the dust settle. What would be really useful is to see a historical map as replicated in the 2nd issue of the EBS journal. I've ordered a historical map online, but I have doubts it will arrive in time for my next visit - on Saturday.

[Anita Bensoussane]

I agree with others that an account of your expedition(s) would be very interesting for Journal readers/visitors to the Enid Blyton Day. I flicked through Journal 2, Viking Star, but couldn't find the historical map. It would be very useful to have one, as you say. There is one somewhere in one of the Journals but I think it's quite small.

Have fun on Saturday!

Anita

[Viv of Ginger Pop]

Sounds great fun. Wish I could join you, but I'm killing trees instead...

Viv

[Viking Star]

Rather than add the photos in a separate later post, I've edited my Bourne End visit report and added the photos.

[Ming]

Amazing photos, Viking.

[Anita Bensoussane]

It's great to see the White House!

Look very carefully, and it's possible to see the face of a little black Scottie dog peeping out of one of the windows!

I've found a map dating from the 1920s in Journal 17 (part of the article "Mapping the Find-Outers" by Andrew Carswell) but it's a map of the general area between Marlow and Burnham, rather than a street map of Bourne End itself. It shows Marlow, Bourne End, Sheepridge, Taplow, Maidenhead and Burnham Beeches. All those places feature in the Find-Outers books, though Bourne End (I keep typing Bourne Enid!!) is disguised as Peterswood of course. Andrew Carswell suggests that Winter Hill, halfway between Bourne End and Marlow, might have provided the inspiration for Christmas Hill in The Mystery of the Hidden House.

Anita

[Green Hedges]

Yes, these photos are great, Viking Star. I don't think the White House is double-glazed. I think I can hear Buster barking! You don't look like Goon, do you?

I can't get into Google Earth on this computer any more, they must have bumped up the minimum byte requiremnets, or whatever. That's frustrating. What really needs to be done is to look at this potential White House close up, aligning the various roof sections so that a three-dimensional idea of the building emerges. Enid is pretty specific about garden/kitchen/front door and garden/kitchen/front/back gate. (Obviously there will be no back gate now, access from the garden into the lane would long ago have been abandoned as an invitation to burglars. Goon long ago ceased to be seen as a sufficient crime deterrent...)

It might help for people to be aware that the road that is glimpsed in VS's photos of the red houses, Marlow Road, runs parallel to the wonderful, overgrown lane. And that the shot of the White House where you see the number 2, is at the start of the road (Abbey or Abbot's Road is it? - I haven't got VK's post or my own first post in front of me) that goes north parallel to Wendover Road and at right angles to Marlow Road.

Once we have a 3-D picture of the house it will then be possible to go back to those tantalising quotes in Mystery of Missing Man (see first post in this thread), where Fatty moves, for example, say, from front of house to back of house, round his house, through a neighbouring garden and back to his shed via the lane. Goon couldn't keep up with the clever fat boy. Can we?

A couple of other things I want to raise since Viking Star is going to Bourne End tomorrow and there is some interest in this side of things just now...

First, in The Mystery of the Hidden House, Ern studies a map of the local area. I have a feeling that Enid may have looked at a map before writing this book. (Why should she trust everything to her undermind?!). It's only from this book onwards that she keeps mentioning neighbouring Marlow. It's only from this book that she really starts using Bourne End place names more frequently.

Christmas Hill is unlikely to be Winter Hill to the south and west, Anita, as its on the other side of the river (Thames). In this book, Enid keeps talking about the stream, which she calls the Bourne (cos it goes through Bourne End, geddit?), whose actual name is the River Wye. It's that area to the east of Bourne End, then North, that Ern in particular explore. From the hill area (where the old mill is supposed to be) north to the spooky old woods.

Another name that keeps coming up in that book is 'Holland'. It occurs as a person's name, but in fact there is a Holland's Farm right on the east end of Bourne End. It's a bed and breakfast these days and it is where Kate and I stayed when I did my research for Looking For Enid (though in the narrative I state that we were camping on the site of the campsite in The Mystery of the Vanished Prince, because it wouldn't have added anything to have brought Holland's Farm into it: it would have distracted the reader). It may be a coincidence that Enid uses this name, but it would certainly be interesting if Holland Farm crops up in the old map of the area and not just the new 1:25,000 map.

The closest place to Bourne End is Cookham. Enid never mentions it by name, preferring to mention Maidenhead which is several miles further away, down the river Thames. Only twice that I'm aware of do the Find-Outers cross the ever present river. Once to interview a suspect in Mystery of the Pantomime Cat. They have a lovely picnic on what is obviously the Cock Marsh/Winter Hill area on the fringe of Cookham. The Find-Outers do a similar thing in one of only two FFO short stories that exist: 'Just a spot of Bother', which is a sweet read.

In both instances they row or are rowed across the Thames (which is about 100 metres wide here, hence the very real difference between the 'river' and the 'stream'). I guess Enid herself never ventured across the river much, therefore the Find-Outers don't. But what's strange about this is that the London train that she mentions in Mystery of the Burnt Cottage comes over the river from Cookham to Bourne End, crossingthe river by bridge, and there is a pedestrian part to this bridge. I suppose it's possible that the pedestrianisation of the rail bridge is something that's happened subsequent to Enid's time. Either that or Enid was unaware of its existence (difficult to believe!).

OK that's enough from me. I wish I was going to Bourne End this weekend. Instead I'm stuck her in this BLOOMING SHED where I can't even access GOOGLE EARTH.

Smost frustrating.

Duncern

[Viking Star]

Thanks both.

Actually, while I was in the passage walking back, a dog of some kind did start barking at me from behind the fence!

Re. Christmas Hill and Winter Hill, in Journal no.32 David Cook says that while it's possible one may have inspired the other, the description of the top of Christmas Hill is very different from the top of Winter Hill.

My map has arrived, but it's too small scale. I'm going to try and getter a bigger one.

[Moonraker]

My map has arrived, but it's too small scale. I'm going to try and getter a bigger one.

Is there a library (there was in Keith's novel!) at Bourne End? A local library would certainly hold maps from the past - large scale too). It might be worth checking out.

[Rob Houghton]

I have an ordinance survey map of the Chilterns from 1930, revised 1947, showing Bourne End etc, but it too is small scale compared to the modern map of the same area. Intersting, though.

[Viking Star]

Hi All

Apologies for the delay in submitting a further report.

I'm afraid the combination of day job, some time night job plus hunting for clues has caught up with me!

I had intended to write a post tonight. However I didn't get back from work 'til 9, and after doing various chores (including getting ready for being away for most of the rest of the week), it seems I've run out of time.

As it is, it's just gone 1.00am, and I have to be up early tomorrow to catch a train for Brussels.

I hope to be able to post a further report when I get back at the end of the week. I'll have access to the forums between now and then, but won't be able to load pictures etc.

In the next report, unless it gets too long, I hope to be able to make educated guesses/ post pictures showing (with varying degrees of certainty): where Pip and Bets lived; where Larry and Daisy lived (one of the places at least), where PC Goon lived, a picture of the Hollies, how The Mystery of the Burnt Cottage is set in and around Coldmoorholme Lane, more pictures of the White House, and much much more........

That should either whet the appetite or give too much away. We'll see!

Thanks for the suggestion about the Library Moonraker. Indeed there is one, which I intend to investigate (I ran out of time on Saturday).

Slightly off topic, I popped into the Bourne End charity shop (having seen mention of it by Anita in her article for the Journal) and saw a copy of a Birn Brothers book called 'Fairy Tales and Nursey Rhymes'. I checked the books section on our web site and saw mention of Fairy Stories and nursery rhymes. I assume this one isn't mentioned in the book listing because it doesn't contain any work by Enid?? I only mention it because I believe I've seen Tony saying somewhere that there isn't yet a complete record of Enid's work for Birn Bros? I thought I'd mention it just in case.

[Lenoir]

Very interesting. Seems that there is more finding out still to be done and I look forward to reading the next episode.

[Green Hedges]

Looking forward to Viking Star's photo-report on some of the other houses that the Find-Outers lived in.

In particular, it will be good to see a picture of what could be the Hiltons' house. Because that house, as I've already said, is effectively located in the same lane as her own Old Thatch, I think Enid had a special attachment to it. She often sets the beginning of a Mystery book there, with Pip and Bets (who were the same age as her two daughters, Gillian and Imo, when she wrote the first one) anticipating what's to come. Here are three smashing summer openings:

The Mystery of the Missing Necklace (opening para): 'Pip and Bets sat in their garden, in the very coolestr place they could find. They had on sun-suits and nothing else, for the August sun was blazing hot.'

The Mystery of the Invisible Thief (opening page): 'The five children lay on their backs on the grass. The sun poured down on them. They all wore as little as possible, but even so they were hot. Nobody could bear poor Buster near them for more than two seconds, because he absolutely radiated heat.'

The Mystery of the Vanished Prince (opening page): '"But will there be time for a mystery?" asked Bets, rolling over to find a shadier place on the grass.'

I don't suppose Viking Star's photographs of a house in Coldmoorholme Lane will be as sunny, partly cos he was there at the beginning of March. And partly because Enid, in calling it Haycock Lane in the Mysteries, edged it from a bleak place-name towards the warmth of an English harvest-time. But that doesn't lessen the anticipation.

In the meantime, here is some more bona fide Bourne End-Enid research. (That is, some not-so-wild Peterswood speculation.)

I have a friend who grew up in Bourne End. He is a geographer and he loves the village almost as much as Enid did (he has kept weather records that go back to the 70s). Alas, I haven't been able to persuade the busy man to read the Mystery series, even though they are steeped in Bourne End. I have a feeling he would love to read those books, including those that open with Pip and Bets baking in the sizzling heat of a Bucks summer.

My Bourne End geographer is going to take a look at the White House (or at least 2 Abbey Road) and tell me if he knows anything about it, which he might do as his mother's own house is close by on Wendover Road.

Personally, I am a bit worried that one can't run round that house and garden on Abbey Road, which is what Fatty specifically does a couple of times in The Mystery of the Missing Man.

Anyway, my chum has already been able to tell me that, when he was a boy, to cross the River Thames at Bourne End you needed to use a ferry, sure enough. The present pedestrian path attached to the railway bridge is pretty recent, he estimates 1990. That explains why Enid has the Find-Outers crossing the river so infrequently. The river was a far greater barrier to movement then than it is now.

However, as well as the two examples of venturing across the river that I mention in my last post, there is another prominent occasion. The campsite in The Mystery of the Vanished Prince is described by Enid as being in the hills between Peterswood (Bourne End) and Marlow. Marlow is west of Bourne End and upstream. However, to get to the campsite you need to go downstream for a mile (south at this point) and cross the river at the road bridge that leads to Cookham, then go north and west to get to the campsite location. Hence the Find-Outers and Ern/Sid/Perce need to do a lot of cycling.

The bike motif gives opportunity for much humour. One time when cycling from the campsite to Peterswood, Ern is chased by Goon who is returning from the Hiltons' house to his own home in the middle of the village (yes, a head-on meeting makes sense given the locations). Then, later on, Fatty is on his way home from Tiplington (a made-up place which must be to the east of Peterswood). He hasn't any lights and is stopped by Goon. Luckily, Fatty is in disguise, and he runs off home abandoning the bike. He phones Goon, tells him his bicycle has been stolen and listens to Goon boasting about how he manged to obtain the bike. Fatty makes an arrangement to collect his bike in ten minutes (which happens to be about the time it would take to walk from the end of Abbey Road to the middle of the High Street in Bourne End). Poor old Goon meekly hands the bike over before realising exactly what's happened!

But back to this campsite location.Fatty, at Pip and Bets' house, says: '"Got your bikes Larry and Daisy? Come on then, let's go. We won't use the ferry, we'll go round by the bridge, and up to the camp that way. It's not very far on bikes."

In so doing Enid is not being very fair on the reader, who can't be expected to follow exactly what she means (unless they have a map of Bourne End in front of them!). But in a sense she doesn't care. She cares about being loyal to the place where she has lived a fair chunk of her one and only life.

Enid not caring about her readers! I don't mean that, of course. She cares enough to give them a great plot, plenty laugh-out-loud scenes (in Vanishing Prince, especially), fluent scene-setting and fine characterisation from first to last.

As for me, I'm still in Fatty's shed. I've found a dirty little notebook full of abandoned poems. It obviously belonged to Ern once upon a time, and by great good chance it's the notebook he had with him when Fatty extemporised in the shed in chapter 9 of Vanished Prince. Here's what Ern's copied out in his laboured handwriting:

'The little Princess Bongawee
Was very small and sweet,
A princess from her pretty head
Down to her tiny feet.
She had a servant, Ern by name,
A very stout young fella,
Who simply loved to shield her with
A dazzling STATE UMBRELLA.

Alas, I can't find the actual state umbrella anywhere in this shed. Just a faded old golf umbrella.

Spity. Sanother great pity.

Duncern

[Viking Star]

In this post I am going to focus on the evidence to Green Hedges’ comment that The Mystery of the Burnt Cottage is, in the main, based in and around Coldmoorholme lane. I was going to post this on a new string, because the subject has widened out and it isn’t just about looking for Fatty. On the other hand the subject matter is all tied in, so having different strings could lead to confusion. Perhaps the string could be re-labelled? Bourne End, the real Peterswood or similar?

The Mystery of the Burnt Cottage starts with Larry and Daisy spotting a fire to the west of Peterswood. As they rush down the lane towards the fire they meet Pip and Bets, who have also been alerted to the fire. The four children walk further down the lane until they reach where Mr Hicks lives, and realise it is his cottage (an outhouse to the main house) that is on fire. As they watch the villagers’ efforts to put out the fire, they meet Fatty, who is staying at the hotel next door to Mr Hicks.

Coldmoorholme Lane is indeed to the west of Bourne End. It is also a winding lane, as described in the book. Surrounded in the most part by fields on either side, it is pretty much the only road to the west of Bourne End. We know that, similar to Mr Hicks’ property, Old Thatch had an outhouse where Dick Hughes, Enid’s chauffer/gardener/ handyman lived. Green Hedges made an interesting comment with his play on words re. Hicks being an amalgam of some of the letters from Dick and Hughes. Like Mr Hicks’ house, Old Thatch is also a good way back from the road. Behind Old Thatch it is largely open land/fields, consistent with the description of the land behind Mr Hicks house.

Old Thatch takes up a sizeable chunk of Coldmoorholme Lane: you could probably fit three houses in the space it takes up. This is consistent with the description that the children ‘went past Mr Hicks house and continued down the winding lane’ before entering by a gate to the burnt cottage.

This is the first glimpse of Old Thatch as you go down Coldmoorholme Lane.




And this is a gate slightly further down, through which visitors gain admittance to the gardens.




Fatty was staying at a hotel overlooking Mr Hick garden. The Spade Oak Inn is adjacent to Old Thatch:




And you could certainly see into the grounds of Old Thatch if staying at the Spade Oak. This picture shows the borders of Old Thatch on the left, and the overlooking Spade Oak on the right:



When Bets takes Buster for a walk she goes down the lane towards the river. Similarly after the children have been told off by Mr Hicks they go down the lane to the river. While there, they also sit on a fence to watch the train arriving from London. If you continue down Coldmoorholme Lane you get to a level crossing where you can watch the trains.




From where you can watch the trains stop and watch a villiain hope on!





You may have noticed in the picture of the level crossing that the river is just beyond (it was getting dark!):





This would be the river path Bets walked down with Buster when looking for clues.





When Pip offers to give the tramp a pair of his father’s old boots, he says “I live in the red house in the lane not far from Mr Hicks’ house.” We know from other books, in particular The Mystery of the Disappearing Cat, that the Pip and Bets live in a house of some size. There is in fact only one house in the lane near Old Thatch. It’s big. And it’s red.





I wonder which window is the playroom?

Finally on to Larry and Daisy’s house. Initially I didn’t intend to look for where Larry and Daisy might have lived. Enid isn’t consistent from book to book in this regard (perhaps the Daykins played the property market!). However I thought it might be possible to at least get some indication of where they were living in the setting of Burnt Cottage.

We know that Larry and Daisy’s garden backed onto Mr Smellie’s. Green Hedges has suggested – presumably drawing on the text in chapter 1, that Larry and Daisy based in the same lane as Pip, Bets, Mr Hicks and the hotel in which Fatty was staying with his parents. An understandable impression. But in fact that is not the case. Late on in the book (I’m afraid my Armada paperbacks don’t have chapter no’s) Fatty goes up the lane. He reaches Mr Smellie’s house (presumably still in the lane?). After bumping into Goon outside Mr Smellie’s house, Fatty races away ‘to the top of the lane and round into the lane where Larry lived’.

Using the Google earth facility I looked for houses in Coldmoorholme Lane whose gardens back onto others’. Very interesting! I found just one such instance – near the very top of the lane. The gardens of the two houses don’t directly face opposite each other, they meet at a right angle (because one is near the top of Coldmoorholme lane and the other is ‘round the corner’ on the Marlow road). This is consistent with the description that Fatty races away ‘to the top of the lane and round into the lane where Larry lived’. Not that the Marlow Road is a lane, but I guess it would have been a lot less busy then!

On this premise (and it's very much conjecture), this is where Larry and Daisy lived.




And, for the record, this would be Mr Smellie’s house!