Find-Outers Readathon

[Lenoir]

“Robbery committed January 3rd. Loot will be hidden in the old mill in Christmas Hill. Ern Goon detailed to find it on night of Jan. 4th.”
(Extract from Ern's notebook.)

Anyone reading mystery of the hidden house today?

[Jen-Jen]

Not today, but I actually read that one just three days ago!

[RainbowJude]

Fatty has, of course, not yet found his feet in The Mystery of the Burnt Cottage and he comes across as a real pain. He is even described as looking "stupid" and we are told that "His brains didn't show in his face." This is at odds with the way he is depicted in later books - for example when PC Pippin sizes him up in Pantomime Cat: "Brains? Yes. Character? Plenty! Cheek? Too much. Pluck? Any amount."

Is the fact that its at odds a simple incongruity or is it a case of character development over time? I guess I'll be able to tell for myself when I get that far down the line, but it feels to me that over the course of several books and a couple of years, Fatty may have grown from a boy with a pudgy face into a teenager with more of a young man's face and that, along with the brains, cheek and pluck he seems to have at the start, his character has come along too. It seems to be that he was rather isolated prior to meeting Larry, Daisy, Pip and Bets and that his interaction with them might have made him the more rounded young man he seems to be by that point.

I actually wonder whether Blyton originally intended the other Find-Outers to keep Fatty in his place throughout the series. Larry is older than Fatty and is head of the Find-Outers at first, so every attempt is made to keep Fatty in check. However, Fatty, like Snubby, is "irrepressible." His remarkable intelligence, huge personality and sense of fun win out despite his boastful ways and, by Book 3, the others concede that he is the real head of the Find-Outers.

We are of course introduced to the Five children and at this point I wonder if EB had yet made up her mind whether Fatty or Larry was to be the leader. Certainly its very much Larry for most of the book but towards the end Fatty asserts himself much more. Of course we now know how the leadership struggle turned out.

Larry is... an efficient leader, but he doesn't have a lot of flair.

I think there's a point here about the difference between saying you're a leader and actually being a leader. Larry would be so much better as a secretary of sorts and I think that a role of that sort could have been built up for him, but I think I would have liked it if the battle of wills between the two boys had been played into a little more as the series progressed instead of, as I suspect will happen, the leadership of the group just sliding into the hands of Fatty. The third book is next up on my list, so I guess I will get to see for myself just how it plays out.

I thought there was too much made of Bets being babyish in this book.

Although I agree that Bets is rather babyish in Burnt Cottage, she doesn't remain so throughout the series. As time passes she becomes more shrewd and very observant, and starts to display a pleasant cheekiness.... The relationship between Fatty and Bets is quite touching - they develop a mutual admiration and respect, and a strong bond forms between them

I also find Bets really endearing in this novel - in spite of the really, really annoying habit of referring to clues as glues.

I didn't think too much was made of Bets being babyish, nor did I find her reference to "glues" to annoying when taken in context. After all, there is a significant age difference between her and the other four children and while I concede that it's an obvious technique to draw in younger readers, it's also a great way of establishing character (not only that of Bets, but Fatty's too), of developing character (as Anita indicates, it gives the character a starting point that has somewhere to go) and also the start of what seems it will be a relationship that will be developed throughout the series. After all, tall towers have to have the deep foundations, no?

Later days
David

[RainbowJude]

We are also introduced to the Find outers great protagonist in the first chapter. Mr Goon's first words in the series are, fittingly, "clear orf". Despite this Goon is not as stupid in this book as he will later become. He keeps up with the find outers reasonably well throughout the mystery. Even when Fatty falls out of a hayrick Goon waits to see if he is hurt before he turns his attention back to the tramp. In later books Goon would rejoice to see Fatty injured.

This is a prime example of character development for me and a rather telling one at that. Goon - stupid or not - just isn't a very good man, I don't think. It's reasons like that (more so than his skills or lack thereof as a detective) that make me believe, to refer to another thread, that it is credible that he was passed over for promotion.

The ending is a bit Poirot-ish - it really relies on the confession! If Hick had accused the children/tramp of lying because of a grudge, or simply said that they must have been mistaken, he'd probably have got away with it easily enough! In any case, it would have been worth taking a gamble on, assuming whoever he sold the documents to would have been happy to keep quiet.

Yes, I agree. It was something I found rather problematic in tying up the loose ends at the end of the novel. The children's solution would have then been based on hearsay, their credibility as good little detectives would been lost and that, I'm afraid, would have been the end of the Five Find Outers and Dog! Blyton certainly made sure there was enough tangible evidence in the next case (The Mystery of the Disappearing Cat) - but I suppose that's because it was so clear (to the reader) who the villain was and the Find Outers needed the evidence to prove this and clear their friend.

I haven't noticed it elsewhere, but the "others'" name-calling of Fatty seems a bit rude... I don't ever hear people called Fatty these days - I guess we are all getting more PC (or maybe just more polite).

It was adroit of Enid to give him the FAT initials - makes the Fatty-ness slightly less un-PC!

You know what I'm finding interesting. Fatty more often than not doesn't seem to be that fat - not even in the original illustrations. A little pudgy around the face mostly, but that's about it. Of course, I've only spent time with the first two books at this point, but to me it seems he's fattest in the very recent cartoon style covers! I suppose the initials account for a a situation where a Fatty who is perhaps a little chubby but not really obese can still be given the nickname.

Does this count as reverse political correctness?

I also found a passage on P117 rather sad.:

The children all felt excited as they went up to bed that night. At least, Fatty didn't go to bed, though Larry did. But then Larry's mother usually came to tuck him up and say good-night, and Fatty's didn't.

Poor Fatty. This seems pretty uncaring of Mrs T not to see that Fatty was okay. My wife still checks on our two when they're home with us, and they are 22 and 26!!!

It is sad. Perhaps, psychologically, it provides a reason for his pursuit of genius and success as a junior detective. A call for attention, channeled in a more positive way that these things sometimes go?

Later days
David

[Belly]

Wasn't Enid a Mrs Trotteville type of mother herself? Practical rather than emotional?

[Rob Houghton]

I always think its amusing how Mrs Trotteville is always very vague about her son's 'doings', not seeming to bother what he does with his money, where he goes to all day, how late he goes out at night. She was always too busy with sales of work and women's fellowship-type meetings and going to the theatre to bother where Fatty was and what he was doing...

...would Fatty be regarded as a 'feral' youngster nowadays??

[Chrissie777]

I love Hidden House - in fact, I would go as far as saying it is one of my favourites - but, hey, who am I to throw a spanner in your collective works.
The Winter Mysterys are my favourite, though with the exception of the first two books and the last in the series, I love them all!

Same here, I like the winter mysteries among the FFO's the best. Particularly "Secret Room", "Tally-Ho Cottage" and "Hidden House". These three books have a lot of atmosphere!

[Vic Nicholas]

Agree 100% and have stated the same in this forum some years ago.

Throw in Mystery of the Strange Messages as well.

Cosy, atmospheric, dark, mysterious!

I loved them as a kid, and I love those particular mysteries now as an adult...though, to be fair, other than Banshee Towers and the dreadful Disappearing Cat, I love them all.

EDIT: Ooops! I did not realise that you had been quoting me!

[Chrissie777]

Still, they've all got the flu, as Goon is so happy about. The Methuen edition seems to have difficulty with the abbreviation. It is usually written as "flu", sometimes 'flu' and once just plain flu!
Mince Pie, anyone?

I noticed that nobody reacted on Nigel's flu question. As the entire word is influenza, probably they kept the " or ' in front of flu for skipping the "in"?
Hope this makes sense in English.

[Daisy]

I seem to remember seeing the shortened version of influenza as 'flu, indicating the missing 'in'!

[Chrissie777]

Hi Daisy, thanks, that's exactly what I was trying to express.

[Moonraker]

I seem to remember seeing the shortened version of influenza as 'flu, indicating the missing 'in'!

and flu' indicating the missing enza!

[Daisy]

I know - it isn't logical is it! Did you hear of the man who's canary was called Enza? One day it escaped but when he opened his window, in flew Enza.

[Moonraker]

Yes, dear Daisy, I had heard about poor Enza's adventure!

[Daisy]

I'm not surprised - it was a very old story!