Favourite Five Find-Outers book

[Anita Bensoussane]

I'm always interested in textual alterations, Irene, so I look forward to reading what you have to say about Vanished Prince.

I feel for Ern when the Find-Outers are unkind to him in Hidden House, though they're gradually shown to be wrong in their initial appraisal of him as "coarse and lumpish" and "a clod". It's terrible that Ern receives a caning for writing a poem which was really written by Fatty, but it's good that something positive eventually comes from his friendship with the others. It's in his eagerness to impress Fatty that Ern finds out he has it in him to be brave, whereas he'd previously written himself off as cowardly. That means more to him than anything. I'm glad the Find-Outers don't disillusion him regarding the "Dear Uncle" poem. Having written a proper "pome" (or so he believes) pleases Ern, but what really matters is his new-found bravery - and the knowledge that the others have grown to like and respect him now they've got to know him. Ern is pretty amiable on the whole, and it's lovely to see him discover that he has more in him than he'd ever realised.

Hidden House isn't among my top three Find-Outers titles but it's an enjoyable read nevertheless. The Find-Outers series is so strong that even the lowest-rated books aren't necessarily bad (though I do find Banshee Towers weak). Sometimes certain quirks of plot, happenings, ingenuities and character depictions just happen to appeal particularly strongly, causing a reader to become invested in a book. And I wonder to what extent readers' attitudes are influenced by things that aren't to do with the story itself, e.g. associating the book with a much-loved relative who bought it as a present, or recalling a favourite teacher reading it to the class, or having vivid memories of having first read it while on a family picnic or holiday. I find it very interesting when people share their memories of reading the books as children.

[Bertie]

Interesting responses about Hidden House.

I've read the book many times and I've never really thought the children were particularly bad with Ern, to be honest. It's always seemed perfectly normal to me that they'd be suspicious of, and take some warming up to, a relative of their arch nemesis - especially as Goon had just got them banned them from solving mysteries, and Ern was a little mouthy at first, as well as bragging about stealing Goon's notebook, and then kept giving away all their (made up) 'secrets' to Goon.

Enid likes having her characters make up mysteries / lay false clues (especially the Find-Outers!) and I think she establishes well why they do it - Goon having got them banned from solving real mysteries, and Ern constantly pushing them to let him help solve one when there isn't one to be solved, etc.

The worst part of it all is the caning, but they didn't intend Goon to see the 'pome', and were all sorry and guilty at Ern's punishment - and the only reason they didn't confess was because they'd got to like Ern and he was so proud of thinking he'd written it!

I agree about how nice it is that Ern grows throughout the book - in confidence and bravery. And how the others grow to like him as the book progresses. But I think that 'growth' over the course of the book is necessary. It wouldn't have made as much sense for them to immediately welcome Goon's nephew into the group. And I think it's clever to have Ern very like Goon in looks, speech, 'brains', etc. But because he's so similar in those regards, again I think it's more believable that the children need time to see there's a lot more kindness and decency in Ern once you get to know him before they start to warm to him.

I like that journey within the book. And I think there's also plenty of humour - the introduction of Fatty's poetic ability, Fatty disguising himself as Ern, Fatty and Goon out on the hill and, later, their phone conversation, etc. And the mystery part is actually very good - I think the real and the fake ones combined have a mix of a feel of a Find-Outers, Famous Five and Secret Seven type mysteries all rolled into one! Which I think really works, though I guess it might give it a different 'feel' that others might not like as much?

[Hannah]

Hidden House is my least favourite. I think it's both the treatment of Ern but also Goon's behaviour and that I'm annoyed at the parents for falling for Goon.
It's not a bad book of course, it's just the one I like least out of a very good series.

Looking forward to reading more about the differences in Missing Prince, Irene.

[Ian]

My 1970s edition of 'Hidden House' is classified as a 'Green Dragon - Suitable for older boys and girls' whereas the rest of the find-outer series is classified as 'Red Dragon - Suitable for boys and Girls'. I wonder if the description of the violence towards Ern was the reason that the book was considered more suitable for older children. I know that in modern editions Ern's punishment is not described.

[Bertie]

It could be, yeah.

Personally, I've always thought the violence against Fatty in Secret Room, when the villains hit him a few times and make his head swim with pain, was every bit as bad and upsetting as Goon's caning of Ern. Actually, more so. Though perhaps the other is deemed worse because it's a police officer doling out the punishment (as an uncle), not the criminals? Either way, I'm surprised the violence in Secret Room wouldn't be enough to 'upgrade' it to a Green Dragon book if it was deemed necessary to class Hidden House as that.

[Lenoir]

I also have the Dragon version of Hidden House and mine is a red dragon. Looks like it is a 1969 edition as that is the latest year shown.
The picture on the front has a green background, which is strange as it was a scene that took place at night.

Coincidentally I finished re- reading it last night. From memory, I wasn’t looking forward to Ern’s “unpleasant night” but in fact he just gets a few strikes on his hand, and it didn’t seem so bad as I thought. Mr. Goon is mean and unpleasant in other ways besides that. He doesn’t even know about the real mystery and you could say he is a non-starter.
I enjoyed the book very much, but then I do like these books. Some comical scenes as usual, and I thought it quite funny that Ern was mistaken for Fatty twice.

[Hannah]

Personally, I've always thought the violence against Fatty in Secret Room, when the villains hit him a few times and make his head swim with pain, was every bit as bad and upsetting as Goon's caning of Ern. Actually, more so. Though perhaps the other is deemed worse because it's a police officer doling out the punishment (as an uncle), not the criminals?

To me violence from criminals is easier to accept - they're villains after all!
While I don't like Goon he's not exactly a villain to me either even though some of his actions (like trying to Buster killed the way he does) are despicable.

[pete9012S]

I also have the Dragon version of Hidden House and mine is a red dragon. Looks like it is a 1969 edition as that is the latest year shown.
The picture on the front has a green background, which is strange as it was a scene that took place at night.

Thanks Lenoir!
Your post reminded me of a similar discussion about green dragons back in 2013!

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4947&p=166999&hilit ... on#p166999





As usual, Tony supplied us with the answer!

I have only just seen this thread which is a pity as I could have told you the answer immediately. I know it is a bit sad really, but like the Armadas I have a whole bookcase of Dragons from D1 onwards ( Flika - Part 1 by Mary O'Hara). For some reason most of the 'horsey' books are green dragons, but sad to say there aren't any Blyton green dragons at all!

In the late 70s they stopped colour coding them and just put black dragons on all the reprints, but like the Find-Outers books, all the School Stories originally had red dragons. My bookshelves contain a wealth of useless information which is of no interest to anyone!!

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4947&p=166999&hilit ... on#p166999

[Bertie]

I also have the Dragon version of Hidden House and mine is a red dragon. Looks like it is a 1969 edition as that is the latest year shown.
The picture on the front has a green background, which is strange as it was a scene that took place at night.

Thanks Lenoir!
Your post reminded me of a similar discussion about green dragons back in 2013!

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4947&p=166999&hilit ... on#p166999

Very interesting link, Pete.
Ian's post earlier stating he had a Green Dragon Hidden House version, while all the others were red, did surprise me. It would be even more interesting if that's the case now, given the posts in that link (and the images you supplied) suggest they were all red, including Hidden House?

[Debbie]

I think the caning we need to look at with the context of the time it was written. Would that really have been considered that bad at the time? It was a punishment in school, and I suspect home, for a lot of readers. Or maybe that would have made it worse knowing that it was something they might face? For me, it was worse, but for readers in the era in which it was set? Maybe not.

I remember being a little disappointed in Fatty in Secret Room. Really, they don't do much to him considering they're desperate criminals, he tells all, and then they lock him in the room and leave him. Surely Fatty's brains and courage would have given him a vital plan to rescue himself, not tell about the others? He only thinks of the invisible letter afterwards when he's been told to write a letter.
I guess it gave more suspense to the story, but the clever Fatty we know would have given a quick response, and manipulated the criminals into telling him to drop a letter so he could do the invisible one.

[Ian]

I also have the Dragon version of Hidden House and mine is a red dragon. Looks like it is a 1969 edition as that is the latest year shown.
The picture on the front has a green background, which is strange as it was a scene that took place at night.

Thanks Lenoir!
Your post reminded me of a similar discussion about green dragons back in 2013!

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4947&p=166999&hilit ... on#p166999

Very interesting link, Pete.
Ian's post earlier stating he had a Green Dragon Hidden House version, while all the others were red, did surprise me. It would be even more interesting if that's the case now, given the posts in that link (and the images you supplied) suggest they were all red, including Hidden House?

Please accept my apologies, it was the green edge of the book that convinced me. All the other books in the series have a red edge. However, when I checked the small picture of the dragon it was red, so it appears that a green dragon FFO book doesn't exist after all.

[pete9012S]

Don't worry Ian - that's exactly the same mistake I made!

[Moonraker]

Personally, I've always thought the violence against Fatty in Secret Room, when the villains hit him a few times and make his head swim with pain, was every bit as bad and upsetting as Goon's caning of Ern. Actually, more so.

Couldn't agree more. However, reading it as an "under-twelve", I saw nothing upsetting in it. Sign of the times, I suppose.

Incidentally, I watched a Dixon of Dock Green earlier, and George Dixon said in his introduction, words to the effect: "We coppers need to know when to turn a blind eye. If we followed up on every wife who gets a slap from her husband, we'd all be on overtime." Words fail me.