Enid was called Granny by her Grandchildren

[Katharine]

Slightly off subject, I was just wondering if there is a definitive guide to what makes someone working, middle or upper class? Is it income, education, career?

I'm fairly certain that my family is all working class for as many generations as we can trace back, however there was always the feeling that my grandmother married beneath her. Presumably because she came from a background of nurses, teachers, skilled craftsmen etc., whereas my grandfather's family went into service or were manual workers. So were they both working class, and if so, were they then divided into 'upper and lower'.

[Fiona1986]

I think Katharine, Grandma n Grandpa to our mother' s side while Grandfather n Grandmother is for our father' s parents. Isnt it so in Britain and America?

As Katharine says there's no real rule like that in Britain. My dad's parents are my Grandma and Grandpa, my mum's parents are Gran and Grandad.

Besides grandmother and grandfather are probably the 'original' names and all the others, gran, granny, nanny, nana, grandma etc are short forms of them.

[Moonraker]

Slightly off subject, I was just wondering if there is a definitive guide to what makes someone working, middle or upper class? Is it income, education, career?

It is the one thing you haven't mentioned - breeding. However educated a coal miner's child might be, however rich he may become and whatever educational heights he reaches, he will still be working class. Likewise, however poor, uneducated or unemployed a middle class child may become, he will still be middle (or upper, if he was born upper class for that matter) class.

Remember Lord Blandford?

[pwl]

Slightly off subject, I was just wondering if there is a definitive guide to what makes someone working, middle or upper class? Is it income, education, career?

I'm fairly certain that my family is all working class for as many generations as we can trace back, however there was always the feeling that my grandmother married beneath her. Presumably because she came from a background of nurses, teachers, skilled craftsmen etc., whereas my grandfather's family went into service or were manual workers. So were they both working class, and if so, were they then divided into 'upper and lower'.

However or whatever the "cause," I would say the only people who can not claim to be the working class, the only people who can claim to distance themselves from that 'stigma of being working class are'.........the unemployed!!

WAHEY

[Darrell71]

"Granny" is unmistakably Middle Class.

How discriminating! It can be upper, middle, working, lower, or whatever class you want it to be!

[pete9012S]

I'm middle class....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=NXZ52-XgUjA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


And while we're at it,don't forget the North / South divide!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj4vzHYN ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Moonraker]

I would say the only people who can not claim to be the working class, the only people who can claim to distance themselves from that 'stigma of being working class are'.........the unemployed!!

Hmm, I think there are millions who would disagree with that statement - certainly remembering the hardships caused by mass unemployment in say the Rhondda Valleys in times past.

[Moonraker]

I'm middle class....

And I am in a class of my own!

[Katharine]

- breeding. However educated a coal miner's child might be, however rich he may become and whatever educational heights he reaches, he will still be working class. Likewise, however poor, uneducated or unemployed a middle class child may become, he will still be middle (or upper, if he was born upper class for that matter) class.

Interesting comment Nigel, but how far back does 'breeding' go, and what happens when people of 2 classes marry? If say the coal miner's child became the head of a highly succesfull business that they set up, they then married the son or daughter of an earl and had children, would those children be considered upper class or working class? Or the opposite way around, if a child of an upper class person married 'beneath' them and lived in a run down area and had children who underachieved at school, what class would those children belong to?

I also think pwl's comment raises an interesting point, can someone who is unemployed through no fault of their own, still be called 'working class'?

[Fiona1986]

I think the lines are so incredibly blurred these days. It's no longer taboo for someone of a traditional working-class background to marry someone who might be considered middle-class.

To be honest, I've no idea what class I belong to. I was always called 'posh' and a 'snob' at school for being near the top of the class, for speaking 'properly' (many people say I cannot be a Dundonian as I speak too well), for wearing sensible well-made clothing (but not silly expensive stuff) and for having decent morals - not swearing, behaving in class etc.

However, I'm the daughter of a police constable and a classroom assistant - fairy working class? I work as a Nanny and a shop assistant, thought I'm a qualified nurse. Nursing itself has moved though the classes enormously since it first became a recognised discipline. (Starting out for well-to-do unmarried ladies, one had to dress, talk and behave like a true lady to be taken on in schools like Florence Nightingale's, then becoming more and more accessible it's not climbing back up a little as it becomes more academic). I've lost my train of thought.

Ah yes, my grandparents would probably all have been working class (paternally a nursing auxilliary and telephone exchange operator, maternally a supermarket worker and post office clerk), though one side definitely spoke and behaved 'better' than the other.

But seriously, class is just so unimportant now. You've got rich, posh people behaving like idiots and relatively poor working families who have hearts of gold.

[Francis]

My father and mother were regarded as middle class because of my fathers job
- Intelligence Officer. However his mother was so poor that she put all her children
(including my father) into a catholic orphanage. My mother came from an impoverished
background where the family lived off bread and jam all winter and despite her passing
exams she was not allowed to go to a school in the nearbye town because her parents
could not afford to pay for a uniform. My father educate himself by going to nightschool
and learning 4 other languages.

[70s-child]

In America, social class is a function of money, education, and the type of job you have. Someone who is considered 'old money' is straight upper class, and those who have new money (nouveau riche) are typically considered lower upper class. Go figure. Everyone in the country calls themselves middle class though -- except perhaps Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.

But seriously, class is just so unimportant now. You've got rich, posh people behaving like idiots and relatively poor working families who have hearts of gold.

I don't know much about the British class system, but I agree with this statement in general. I think real class is a function of how you treat the people around you. If you treat them well, regardless of your bank balance and your education, you will be respected pretty easily; but if you treat them bad, then no amount of money or education, is going to prevent people from calling you some pretty nasty names.

[Anita Bensoussane]

The phrase "Manners maketh man" springs to mind.

[Francis]

There's plenty of real 'class' on this Forum - maybe it's an Enid Blyton thing.
Julian sets a wonderful example of 'manners maketh man'.

[Maureen1954]

I don't believe in this class stigma created by society, we are all the same!! A person as far as I am concerned who is humble,kind,charitable,honest and pure is certainly the most "Classiest" person of all!!!