Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

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Katharine
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

Post by Katharine »

Debbie wrote: 26 Jul 2022, 20:01
Both had sequels. There was "Emil and the Three Twins." The author also wrote "Lottie and Lisa" which was dramatised as "The Parent trap".
That's certainly an intriguing title for a story, it vaguely rings a bell, but I'm not sure if I've ever read it/had it read to me.

Wow, I don't think I was aware that he also wrote the Parent Trap, one of my family's favourite films, although I prefer the Hayley Mills version and the younger members of my family like the newer version.
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

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Debbie wrote: 26 Jul 2022, 20:01
The "Family from One End Street" also had "Further Adventures of the Family from One End Street" and, I think it was called "Holiday at Dew Drop Inn".
Ahh yes - I had a feeling one might have been about the Dew Drop Inn.
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Great summing-up of some of the subtle, surprising and slightly subversive elements of Antonia Forest's Marlows books, Tim. They're quite experimental in some respects and I love the wide scope of the stories and the way Antonia Forest brings in her own interests (e.g. falconry, acting, Catholicism, the Navy and cricket). I remember finding The Thuggery Affair a bit of a slog though, as it's so peppered with 1960s teenage slang!

John Pickup wrote: 25 Jul 2022, 21:32Apart from Enid, I think Malcolm Saville is sadly underated, the Jillies series being my favourite.
Of the Malcolm Saville series I've read, the Jillies series is my favourite as well. I know from comments on here (in this thread and in other threads) that the Nettleford books are highly rated so I must give them a try.

John Pickup wrote: 25 Jul 2022, 21:32Tim mentions the Bannerdale books by Geoffrey Trease. I have all five but the stories don't grip me like Saville's or Enid's. No Boats On Bannermere is ok but the subsequent titles lack fluidity and excitement.
I read the first two or three Bannerdale titles but found them rather stilted and felt that they weren't up to the standard of adventure novels by authors like Antonia Forest, Enid Blyton, Malcolm Saville and Arthur Ransome.

Debbie wrote: 26 Jul 2022, 20:01There was "Emil and the Three Twins." The author also wrote "Lottie and Lisa" which was dramatised as "The Parent trap".
The "Family from One End Street" also had "Further Adventures of the Family from One End Street" and, I think it was called "Holiday at Dew Drop Inn".
I enjoyed Emil and the Three Twins more than Emil and the Detectives as the story is more involved.

I haven't read the sequels to The Family from One End Street but the mention of Dew Drop Inn makes me think of the TV series The Waltons!

Katharine wrote: 26 Jul 2022, 21:20 Wow, I don't think I was aware that he also wrote the Parent Trap, one of my family's favourite films, although I prefer the Hayley Mills version and the younger members of my family like the newer version.
I only found out as an adult that Erich Kastner wrote the book on which The Parent Trap was based. Although I like the Hayley Mills film, I slightly prefer the Lindsay Lohan one.
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

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Anita Bensoussane wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 21:45
Katharine wrote: 26 Jul 2022, 21:20 Wow, I don't think I was aware that he also wrote the Parent Trap, one of my family's favourite films, although I prefer the Hayley Mills version and the younger members of my family like the newer version.
I only found out as an adult that Erich Kastner wrote the book on which The Parent Trap was based. Although I like the Hayley Mills film, I slightly prefer the Lindsay Lohan one.
In fairness to the newer film, I think I've only ever seen it all the way through once, and then odd bits of it from time to time. I suppose because I'd grown up with the earlier version, any differences between the two niggled me a little. Now that I know it's based on a book, it would be interesting to know if either film sticks much to the book.
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Must admit I've never read the book! I think the two films are pretty similar but I feel that Lindsay Lohan gives a slightly more nuanced performance as the twins.
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

Post by Debbie »

Katharine wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 21:53
Anita Bensoussane wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 21:45
Katharine wrote: 26 Jul 2022, 21:20 Wow, I don't think I was aware that he also wrote the Parent Trap, one of my family's favourite films, although I prefer the Hayley Mills version and the younger members of my family like the newer version.
I only found out as an adult that Erich Kastner wrote the book on which The Parent Trap was based. Although I like the Hayley Mills film, I slightly prefer the Lindsay Lohan one.
In fairness to the newer film, I think I've only ever seen it all the way through once, and then odd bits of it from time to time. I suppose because I'd grown up with the earlier version, any differences between the two niggled me a little. Now that I know it's based on a book, it would be interesting to know if either film sticks much to the book.
I would say loosely based on the book! I love the book though. It's really sweet and innocent. Their Mum was Liselotte, and they divided the name in two, Lisa and Lotta which I remember loving the symbolism of that as a child.
They're doing a musical version of it in the West End currently as well i think.
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

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Debbie wrote: 24 Jul 2022, 11:00 @timv

... Antonia Forest's ... "The Marlows and the Traitor" has a lot more depth than standard child spy stories.
WARNING, SPOILER ALERT !

I think the portrayal of Foley is more or less unmatched in children's or even adult literature. A spy who intends to murder three children, and he is still a sympathetic character in the sense that we can see his motivation and not necessarily hate him.

My own personal opinion is that anyone who thinks Forest's books aren't among the greatest ever written, is underrating her! Her characters are fabulous. even Peter, who gets about three lines in the first book (Autumn Term) with no apparent reason to believe he would ever appear again, has a recognisable character that fits in with his longer appearances later in the series.
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

Post by timv »

It's heartening to hear that there are so many other Forest fans out there! I have in fact done a lengthy section of one of my proposed books on British children's literature on her and her characters and settings; there was an internet fan website, called I think 'trennels' after their home, a few years ago which I consulted but it seems to have transmuted into a Facebook page recently.

Another classic writer to my mind is the work of the Sussex children's historical novelist Barbara Willard, especially her 'Mantlemass' series - though this may be more attractive to people who know the area as it has a strong sense of place , namely Ashdown Forest N of Brighton (also home to A A Milne and site of the real 'Poohsticks Bridge' and 'Hundred Acre Wood') where I lived as a teenager. Does anyone else recall this series? The first and second of her series, set in the late C15th in the time of Kings Richard III and Henry VII, are probably the best - 'The Lark and the Laurel' (called after the family badge of the main featured characters, Cecily Jolland and Lewis Mallory) and 'The Spring of Broom' (called after the English royal family pre-1485, the Plantagenets whose name means 'Planta Genista' ie 'Broom' (plant), as leading character Medley is the illegitimate son of the last P king, Richard III). The main characters are minor rural gentry and farmers, not great nobles, and there is is a great sense of ordinary people's lives in the later Middle Ages with great events going on in the background - later we have the Reformation, the Spanish Armada and the Civil War as the series covers to the 1640s. The series is really 'immersive', and focuses on relationships not on too much drama. It was arguably better written than most of Geoffrey Trease's later historical children's lit which tended to 'churn out' stories with a new setting but similar characters and plots - I would say that it is as good as Rosemary Sutcliff. The careful, well-crafted, detailed children's historical novel seems to have faded a bit since the 1960s - perhaps until JK Rowling's success with the long Harry Potter books publishers thought that too long and complex books would not sell?

The 'One End Street' series is by the way set in Lewes, just down the road from Ashdown Forest and near Malcolm Saville's 1960s home at Barcombe Mills, which features in later Lone Pine book 'Rye Royal'. The climax of MS's book 'A Palace for the Buckinghams' (mostly set in Hampstead where Antonia Forest grew up) is set nearby too. It's interesting how many children's authors turn out to have Sussex links - starting with Rudyard Kipling who lived at Batemans near Heathfield , some miles NW of Rye, from 1902-36. Elements of Brighton pop up in Malcolm Saville's 'Buckinghams' series ('The Long Passage') and even in one or two of Angela Brazil's over-gushy' Edwardian school books; she was another resident.
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Although I'm aware of Barbara Willard I don't think I've ever come across any of her books, which is a pity. I did read and enjoy some of Rosemary Sutcliff's novels as a child.

Two modern writers who have written "careful, well-crafted, detailed" historical novels for children/young adults are Julia Golding and Sally Gardner, both of whom might be said to be underrated in that their names are rarely mentioned compared to authors like Jacqueline Wilson, Philip Pullman, Anthony Horowitz, J. K. Rowling, etc. Sally Gardener's The Red Necklace and The Silver Blade are set in Paris at the time of the French Revolution and are quirky, memorable, exquisitely written and laden with historical detail. The two titles constitute a series (or duo!) and I loved them both. Julia Golding's "Cat Royal" books are set in a similar period but span a number of different countries and begin with the main character, a girl called Cat, living at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane in London. They're lively, engaging tales full of drama, and again they're beautifully written. Both authors have written other books but they're not all historical and I haven't read them all.

Oh, and what about Victor Watson's "Paradise Barn" books? They're wonderful Second World War stories which draw the reader deeper and deeper into the world of the characters and explore the wider repercussions of war. I found the series really moving and was sorry when I reached the end of it.
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

Post by Fiona1986 »

Katharine wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 21:53
Anita Bensoussane wrote: 27 Jul 2022, 21:45
Katharine wrote: 26 Jul 2022, 21:20 Wow, I don't think I was aware that he also wrote the Parent Trap, one of my family's favourite films, although I prefer the Hayley Mills version and the younger members of my family like the newer version.
I only found out as an adult that Erich Kastner wrote the book on which The Parent Trap was based. Although I like the Hayley Mills film, I slightly prefer the Lindsay Lohan one.
In fairness to the newer film, I think I've only ever seen it all the way through once, and then odd bits of it from time to time. I suppose because I'd grown up with the earlier version, any differences between the two niggled me a little. Now that I know it's based on a book, it would be interesting to know if either film sticks much to the book.
I love both the films, though I prefer the original. I love that the actress playing Vicky - Dad's gold-digging girlfriend the original - comes back as Dad's gold-digging girlfriend's mother in the remake.

I have also read the book, which was not very much like either film from what I can remember!
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

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The second half of the list is now out: (with my thoughts)

11. I Want My Hat Back, Jon Klassen, 2011. I did read this to one of my children, I think. I didn't find it particularly memorable.

12. Frog and Toad stories, Arnold Lobel, 1970-79. Totally agree with these. We read them as children and I still quote it "I will wrap you up with tinsel and make you twinkle like a little star" gets said every Christmas. Beautiful books. I have one somewhere.


13. The Giant Jam Sandwich, John Vernon Lord and Janet Burroway, 1972. I know it's popular, but I remember finding it a bit disgusting as a child with all the thought of the dirt etc going over the bread. Bread very easily turns my stomach though, so I'm probably alone there.

14. The Uncle series, J P Martin, 1960-73. Yes. Loved them.

15. Annie, Thomas Meehan, 1977. I have the book. It's surprisingly good for a Movie book. Not convinced it really deserves it's place here, but it reads like a story book rather than a written account of the film, so adds to the film rather than just being a badly written book. I'd let that one stand (aren't I kind)

16. Holes, Louis Sachar, 1998. My children all read it in English lessons. It's very well-read so I'd question how it's in this list as underrated. They enjoyed it. I found it quite haunting, and it's definitely one to read.

17. Auntie Robbo, Ann Scott-Moncrieff, 1941. Haven't read it so i can't comment.

18. A Cricket in Times Square, George Selden, 1960. If it's the one I think it is, then it's a good read.

19. The Mennyms, Sylvia Waugh, 1993. Love this set. Totally agree with them being on the list. I wish our local library had the last one in the series though...

20. Charmed Life, Diana Wynne Jones, 1977 (and the rest of the Chrestomanci series). Love her books, but I wouldn't call these ones underrated. She has some that aren't as well known. The Pinhoe Egg, which is kind of an afterthought to the Chrestomanci series, to my mind is the best of the lot. "Power of Three" and "Time of the Ghost" are much less well known and fantastic. Recommend them to anyone. I think she as an author is underrated-I've not read a bad book by her, but the Chrestomanci series are the best known.
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

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Of those I have heard of Holes, and Dianna Wynne Jones (Howl's Moving Castle) but have not read any of them. I'd say that Holes is pretty well known, I see it mentioned online quite a lot!
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

It's interesting to see Part 2 of the list, Debbie. Like you, I'd question whether Louis Sachar's Holes is underrated. My daughter also had it as a class reader when she was at school. I'd say that Diana Wynne Jones' Chrestomanci series is generally highly rated too.

Arnold Lobel's 'Frog and Toad' books charmed me when I was little (my sister and I had them from the library) but I haven't seen them for years. I have a copy of Thomas Meehan's Annie and it's enjoyable but not a top favourite.

Having spotted Sylvia Waugh's Mennyms books in several shops over the years, I rather like the look of them. I haven't got round to buying or reading any but the idea of dolls living a secretive life of their own has always appealed.

I've heard of J. P. Martin's 'Uncle' series, Auntie Robbo by Ann Scott-Moncrieff and The Cricket in Times Square by George Selden but have never come across them. Time to keep an eye out!

I must admit I've never heard of I Want My Hat Back by Jon Klassen or The Giant Jam Sandwich by John Vernon Lord and Janet Burroway.

All in all, there are more titles on this second list that I haven't read. However, quite a few of them are picture books. That's not necessarily a bad thing - after all, I love a lot of Dr. Seuss's books as well as A Squash and a Squeeze by Julia Donaldson and The Very Hungry Caterpillar by Eric Carle.
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

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Fiona1986 wrote: 29 Jul 2022, 09:31 [
I love both the films, though I prefer the original. I love that the actress playing Vicky - Dad's gold-digging girlfriend the original - comes back as Dad's gold-digging girlfriend's mother in the remake.

I have also read the book, which was not very much like either film from what I can remember!
Ah yes, I'd forgotten about her, an amusing touch I thought.

As for rest of the books on the list, I've not heard of any of those.
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Re: Underrated Children's Books - The Independent

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

John Rentoul has written a third article on underrated books, this time looking at underrated children's titles by famous authors:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/to ... ml?r=61012


The books listed (together with a few comments from the article) are:

1. Willy Visits the Square World, Jeffrey Archer, 1980.

2. The Clarice Bean novels, Lauren Child, 2002-06.

3. Stick Man, Julia Donaldson, and illustrated by Axel Scheffler, 2008.

4. Rikki-Tikki-Tavi, Rudyard Kipling, 1894. Short story.

5. The Elephant and the Flower, Brian Patten, 1970.

6. Minnow on the Say, Philippa Pearce, 1955. Better than Tom’s Midnight Garden, according to Wendy Smith.

7. I Capture the Castle, Dodie Smith, 1948.

8. The Painted Garden, Noel Streatfeild, 1948. “My absolute favourite as a child and no one else has heard of it,” said Sam Freedman. Isabel Hardman said A Vicarage Family, “also weirdly little known, is even better”. Lesley Smith preferred Thursday’s Child: “Flawed heroine, rags to success if not riches.” Debbie Welch liked The Fearless Treasure: “A mixed group of children are brought together to travel through history.” The Children of Primrose Lane is also good. Yet all anybody knows is Ballet Shoes.

9. The 13 Clocks, James Thurber, 1950.

10. Roverandom, J R R Tolkien, 1925. “Almost no one reads it because it isn’t The Lord of the Rings, and it isn’t set in Middle-earth. But it is a great children’s story with magic and the Moon, and the protagonist is a little dog named Rover. Kids love it. Classic fun” – Shaun Gunner. Also: Farmer Giles of Ham. “A little novel of the heroism of the English commoner, woven into Anglo-Saxon mythology. Tends to be missed because of Tolkien’s more famous works” – Marginal Gains.

Having read Philippa Pearce's Minnow on the Say, I don't agree that it's better than Tom's Midnight Garden but it's certainly an alluring story with a dreamy, lyrical quality. I thoroughly enjoyed it and would recommend it.

Neither do I think that The Painted Garden is one of Noel Streatfeild's best novels - or any of the other titles mentioned (the only one I'm not familiar with is The Fearless Treasure). If had to pick a Streatfeild novel that deserves to be better known, it would be Apple Bough. It's a beautifully evocative book about child performers, their siblings and the impact on family life. I've read it umpteen times and it never fails to move me. I'm also a fan of The Circus is Coming and Tennis Shoes.

'Rikki-Tikki-Tavi' is an engaging Rudyard Kipling story but I wouldn't say it's underrated as it's mentioned quite often in discussions and is generally highly praised. A cartoon version was shown on TV regularly when I was a child and I loved watching it.

Although I've read Julia Donaldson's Stick Man, I don't recall much about it. Our own Julia Donaldson favourite when my children were little was A Squash and a Squeeze. We lived in a tiny terraced house so the story resonated with us!

I've seen a film version of Dodie Smith's I Capture the Castle but haven't read the book, although I intend to. I read The Hundred and One Dalmatians, Starlight Barking and The Midnight Kittens many times as a child and they transported me to magical worlds.

As a teenager I had five or six of Jeffrey Archer's adult novels but I'm not familiar with any of his children's books. Willy Visits the Square World is summarised on Amazon as follows: "Willy encounters a variety of strange creatures after he dons his space suit and journeys to the square world in search of his missing cat Yo-Yo." Sounds quirky.

Although I've read a few stories by James Thurber, I don't think 'The 13 Clocks' was one of them. Neither have I tried anything by Tolkien except for The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. Roverandom certainly sounds different!

I've never come across The Elephant and the Flower by Brian Patten, though I have read some of his poems. As for Lauren Child's Clarice Bean books, I've seen them in the shops but haven't been inspired to pick them up.


Towards the end of the Independent article is the following paragraph:
An honourable mention for Debbie Welch, who nominated The Rubadub Mystery, Enid Blyton, 1951. “There’s a number of hidden gems in EB, and this is one of them. The main character, Barney, is tricked into doing things by someone promising to find his estranged father. The emotion and characterisation are far beyond what people associate with EB.”
Hurrah! I agree wholeheartedly that The Rubadub Mystery and indeed the whole Barney series (or at least the first four titles) ought to be better known. Sadly, they've been out of print for ages! Personally, I also think the two Six Cousins books and The Six Bad Boys warrant more attention. Again, the characterisation is strong, the writing is mature and there is plenty of drama and emotion. They're thought-provoking family stories that shed light on the attitudes of the time.

As far as other famous authors are concerned, I wish more people knew A Little Princess by Frances Hodgson Burnett. The Secret Garden is extra special but A Little Princess is wonderful too. It's imaginative and heartwarming with some unexpected characters and events.

Eva Ibbotson's Journey to the River Sea is frequently praised (and so it should be - I'm re-reading it at the moment and it's a gripping story which flows and entices just like the river of the title) but I feel that The Star of Kazan by the same author is just as good and deserves more recognition. It's an involving story full of mystery, set in the Austro-Hungarian and German empires in the early 20th century.
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