Modern Times

tix · Post by **tix** » 20 Oct 2006, 23:22

moonraker: You misunderstood me a little. I could see Mirabel or Moira telling us that "These books must be read in the knowledge that they are period pieces," - but "must" they be read on that basis, and on whose authority? The people who change the scripts have to be realistic even if you and I and a host of other Enid Blyton readers from the past wish to view the world through a sentimental and rose-coloured haze. The publishers are making the alterations to bring the stories up to date for "up-to-date" children. It would be a little senseless to do this and then depict Anne as a person who has never experienced television. So I repeat: The people who make changes in the script have to include a little sense.

Quite possibly I was more outraged than you when the revamps began appearing but later on I wondered if I was being a little selfish. Should children have to read and interpret the books exactly as I had read and interpreted them? For centuries adults have indoctrinated offspring with their own ideas and attitudes hoping that this will ensure an unchanging world because we all like to think that our environment will stay the way it is. Unfortunately, many of our very selfish opinions and prejudices can also be forced onto the youngsters and this is very observable in today's world - I don't have to point out examples! (I can't win of course because right now I am passing on my own opinions and prejudices but at least I am forcing them onto someone who is able to weigh-up factors and who possesses more brains than a child).

Getting back to Enid Blyton, I think it's a healthy and quite absorbing exercise to compare new editions with the old and to produce arguments for or against as articulately as possible but after doing all that I retired and had a little think. Chorion is a multi-million dollar organization and they want to retain their status. They own the rights and are therefore entitled to present the stories in a way they feel will benefit them the most. Taking into account the psychology of children, one trait that emerges to some degree is the desire to be "modern" and "with it" and involved in that which is the "latest-and-the-greatest." Kids are like blotting paper as far as new-fangled things go - items which many Enid Blyton fans might find difficult to comprehend and Chorion, taking this into account, quite possibly felt that the author's material needed to include society's newer accoutrements and yet retain as much of the unique Enid Blyton atmosphere as possible. Whether or not they are doing a good job of that would be reflected in the sales charts.

Looking at your side, it's a pity you stated - "If kids thought they were set in 2006, why don't they text and contact each other by mobile phone; and where's the internet?" By handing those ideas to the copyright owners it's quite likely they will use them if they haven't already! Kids can still enjoy Enid Blyton books immensely with the added attraction of the modern stuff like "ipods" and "texting telephones" - whatever they are. Remember, the children aren't buying the books as scholars who wish to read stories in an old-fashioned way and dissect them - they just want to be entertained in a world to which they can relate. The books with original script are probably more liked by adult readers methinks although the young ones can certainly enjoy them and they do. Remember, we are dealing with "The Blyton Phenomenon" (thank you Sheila) and the sales far exceed another author's extremely successful creation which is still with us but has more-or-less retained the original 1920's flavour - "Just William."

The "Period Pieces" as you describe Enid Blyton's original books are still here and will be for a long time. Lawks "¦.. even The Greatest Book in the World has been updated many, many times but you can still get hold of the original English version. Would it be acceptable for a Jewish person to insist that only an unaltered Hebrew edition should be available? If the Word of God can be changed, then I guess that the Word of Enid Blyton can follow suit (sad as it is) but we don't have to worry because you and I read the Unaltered and the True. I read a changed book once and I was bored silly and I also felt a little cheated.

There are thousands, in fact going on the EB output, there would be millions of her original books sitting in peoples' back rooms all over the world (I've got some in my back room) and they will be available through various sources including the internet for years to come. They will go up in price but so will wages. Not only that, but people like us can always buy them now and pass them on if need be and the reprints containing original script are very well represented in the cheaper brands of paperbacks. An "Armada" book which contains the unaltered content of a first edition "Island of Adventure" can go for a song compared to the hard-back. As well as that, any child can enjoy the old stock if we lend them our copies and some may even prefer them. Your children will inherit your books of course so it's not all that bad.

Another way of looking at it is that in the future if piles of kids begin writing to Chorion and demanding that they want EB books produced as they were originally printed, then you can bet that before you and I can say "Jack Robinson" the company will spit them out as fast as the printing-machines will let them. Then us and our old fashioned children may indulge, and the modern up-to-date people together with their progeny will purchase the changed versions. The Bottom-Line is this: The "Originals" exist and will always exist until another flood wipes them from the face of the earth.

An item not to be overlooked is that the magazine produced by the Enid Blyton Society could be terribly reduced in size if it wasn't for the grace of the copyright owners.

Despite the aforesaid, I'm extremely glad to see that people like yourself and with your attitude to Enid Blyton are still around because it makes one feel very much at home despite an ever-changing world and thanks for yet another obscure Enid Blyton reference to the electronic media "¦"¦ this time at Owl's Dene and concerning Richard Kent. It"˜s interesting to note the far-flung sources from whence they emerge.

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lucky Star: Thank you for a very interesting observation. Two "Cinema" references and a "Radio." I would never have known about those unless I had spent weeks trying to search them out. Furthermore, you can make as many ""Sweeping Statements"" as you like because we all do "¦ not always intentionally. I may have made some "Sweeping Statements" above and the people who disagree can respond in "Righteous Anger" thus making (I hope) interesting forum material!

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Anita Bensoussane: I think "Sinny-Town" could be classed as a fairly elusive one - but that's your game, and the other is a very welcome addition. Thank you kindly for those.

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Viking Star: Yet another one for the pot. I think Ern meant BBC Radio. I doubt very much if his house would have a television in fact he's probably never heard of it.

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Anita Bensoussane: Of course. Fatty had to listen to the wireless (Pantomime Cat) and he did find it a rather dull half-hour.

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Post by **Anita Bensoussane** » 21 Oct 2006, 07:13

[Tiq:] "Of course. Fatty had to listen to the wireless (Pantomime Cat) and he did find it a rather dull half-hour."

Thanks for that, Tiq. That's probably the next book on Viking Star's list, then. I just looked up the reference and had a chuckle: "...a very dull talk it proved to be, on a little-known part of China which Fatty devoutly hoped he would never have to visit. He passed the dull half-hour by thinking out further plans. His father was really pleased to see such an intent look on Fatty's face."

Hee hee - much as I love the Adventure series, the Find-Outers books have a style all their own. Such an easy, fluid style laced with humour, drawing the reader effortlessly into the world of Fatty and co. It's obvious that Enid Blyton enjoyed writing these books immensely.

Please let's not spoil this world of errand boys on bicycles, village bobbies, ginger-beer and silver sixpences by introducing mobile phones, rap music, the Internet and ASBOs!

Anita

tix · Post by **tix** » 21 Oct 2006, 09:18

Anita Bensoussane:

Please let's not spoil this world of errand boys on bicycles, village bobbies, ginger-beer and silver sixpences by introducing mobile phones, rap music, the Internet and ASBOs!

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Quite right ..... very worthy sentiments.

I know more-or-less what rap music is, and certainly the internet but I'm stymied when I come up against "ASBO." Perhaps you could let me know what one of those is so that I can add it to my comprehensive knowledge of the Modern World. Many thanks.

Post by **Anita Bensoussane** » 21 Oct 2006, 22:53

[Tiq:] 'I'm stymied when I come up against "ASBO." '

Sorry - I forgot that Forum members outside Britain might not be familiar with ASBOs. They're Anti-Social Behaviour Orders, issued to offenders whose behaviour causes problems in the community. The orders often place restrictions on a person's behaviour - eg. someone who has repeatedly caused a disturbance in a particular area may be banned from entering that area. (I hope I've got that right, but I'm sure George@Kirrin will correct anything I may have got wrong!)

Anita

Viking Star · Post by **Viking Star** » 22 Oct 2006, 01:54

[quote="tiq"]
Viking Star: Yet another one for the pot. I think Ern meant BBC Radio. I doubt very much if his house would have a television in fact he's probably never heard of it.

I think you're being rather hard on Ern in doubting he had probably never heard of TV, Tiq!

If Anne had heard of television in 1947, I'm sure that Ern, in 1948, who was probably several years older, would also have heard of it. He knew about radio, and I'm sure the BBC would have been pushing/advertising TV on their radio programmes as much as they could!

In the same way that today's youngsters know far more about computers, the internet, Sony Playstations, mobile phones and apparently learn to operate the video recorder by the age of 3 than do adults, I'm pretty sure Ern would have heard of TV.

As his Uncle was a policeman, he would probably also know what an ASBO was.

tix · Post by **tix** » 22 Oct 2006, 09:08

Anita Bensoussane: Thank you very much for enlightening me.

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Viking Star: You're probably right. I am not sure how widespread TV would have been in the Forties and I assumed that only the richer people would have them. I was relying purely on the impression I've received of Ern over the years "¦ that of an innocent, wide-eyed lad with his head-in-the-clouds. I don't think it's right to say "stupid" but I thought of him as "not very bright" and uninvolved with wide-ranging activities apart from wondering what he was going to get for his next meal. He did camp in a field with his brothers but that might have resulted from his ma's desire to get rid of the pains for a while. Fatty was a little more direct when he described Ern as an Oaf, and a Clod, and a Lump, Without a Brain in his Head!

Viking Star · Post by **Viking Star** » 22 Oct 2006, 12:26

tiq wrote: Viking Star: You're probably right. I am not sure how widespread TV would have been in the Forties and I assumed that only the richer people would have them.

Oh I'm sure he didn't have one Tiq, just that he would have heard of the medium.

By the way, well done and thanks for taking the time to share your comments in detail. Every time I write a message on the forum I find it's longer than I had intended, but I do like to explain my point clearly!

Anita: Yes, well done on the China radio programme in 'Pantomime Cat'. In addition to the radio programme, the alibi of one of the actors is that he went to the cinema to see "You know how it is". I'll keep my eyes peeled......

I also agree with your comment about the 'Find-Outers books having a style of their own. It's been a real delight re-reading this series, and I've thought about posting a message on the subject - but it could be a long one.....

Moonraker · Post by **Moonraker** » 22 Oct 2006, 15:23

Viking Star wrote: As his Uncle was a policeman, he would probably also know what an ASBO was.

Yeah, sure he did.

A Severe Beating Occassion!

Viking Star wrote: By the way, well done and thanks for taking the time to share your comments in detail. Every time I write a message on the forum I find it's longer than I had intended, but I do like to explain my point clearly!

Here, here. It is good to see some in-depth discussions of a more serious matter on this forum. I found this and the Golliwog thread most interesting.

Post by **Anita Bensoussane** » 22 Oct 2006, 16:11

Hi,

Like Nigel, I'm enjoying this thread.

Viking Star, The Mystery of the Pantomime Cat features a number of film-titles, including the wonderful He Loved Her So and the rather silly Henry the Fifteenth!

[Viking Star:] "I also agree with your comment about the 'Find-Outers books having a style of their own. It's been a real delight re-reading this series, and I've thought about posting a message on the subject - but it could be a long one....."

Oooh - I'm looking forward to that!

Anita

Moonraker · Post by **Moonraker** » 22 Oct 2006, 16:17

Anita Bensoussane wrote:
[Viking Star:] "I also agree with your comment about the 'Find-Outers books having a style of their own. It's been a real delight re-reading this series, and I've thought about posting a message on the subject - but it could be a long one....."

Oooh - I'm looking forward to that!

Me too........

tix · Post by **tix** » 23 Oct 2006, 09:14

Viking Star: Point taken and anyway, you're closer to Ern's house than I am. Messages can indeed extend further than originally intended but that should be no problem at all so post a long comment about the Find-Outer series. Not only, as reported in this forum, do those books have a style of "their own" but any posting you make will contain its own special flavour due to the fact that you will have a style of "your" own.

Post by **Tony Summerfield** » 23 Oct 2006, 11:17

Although not strictly relevant to this thread, I have had a letter that is relevant to both the Find-Outers and tiq and as I once again have no room for letters in the next Journal I thought I would post it here:-

Thank you for another interesting journal. I'm writing this in response to Terry Gustafson's article Magistrates, Musings & Mistakes as I feel some of his observations may have another explanation. It is the mistakes section with which I beg to differ!
The article prompted me to re-read the whole series (all hard back 46s to 60s editions)
In the Burnt Cottage his criticism of the Hiltons being allowed out certainly sounds justified, but we know from later books that their household consisted of at least one live-in domestic, so the Hilton parents would probably often be able to have evening outings without worrying about finding baby sitters. Pip & Bets would have little difficulty in popping out when they did, without permission, but they weren't left alone in the house!
Mrs Minns does seem to be a problem as her mobility on the night was certainly questionable, but I think even someone having great difficulty in getting out of a chair would find she could manage to in such a situation! However, back in chapter 1 before anyone is thinking of doing any detective work we have Mrs Minns in the garden answering Mr Hick when he asks where she is. "Here Sir" said poor, fat, trembling Mrs Minns (p6) so she did get out there eventually, but I agree the whole incident in the kitchen when the children were interviewing her sister is as Terry says - a bit messy.
In the Secret Room Terry questions the illustrated cover and suggests it is incorrect. However, all the children subsequently visit the garden in daylight and all climb the tree to take a look at the barred room (p60 of my 1945 first edition). Could this not be an illustration of that occasion rather than the murky night which wouldn't have made such a strikingly colourful picture?
Incidentally - yes, children in that era did wear school blazers and caps when out and about casually. As a child of that time myself, I well remember having Sunday best, school overcoat when secondary school age and one skirt, a couple of jumpers and a cardigan and very little else! As the eldest of three I was the lucky one, my sisters wore my cast-offs for many years!
I am a frequent guest on the EB Society site and am enjoying the Canyon of Adventure and I read the forum contributions regularly.

As the writer mentions that she frequently checks the Forums, I hope that perhaps she might register and join in the current interesting discussion.

Best wishes
Tony

Moonraker · Post by **Moonraker** » 23 Oct 2006, 13:04

An excellent, interesting letter, Tony; thank-you for sharing it with us.
I agree, I hope this lady does contribute to the forums. It would appear that she has much to offer, and I look forward to further discussion.

tix · Post by **tix** » 24 Oct 2006, 05:35

Nameless letter-writer via Tony Summerfield: Your missive is well thought out and just the thing to see on a forum because it raises arguments. There are some good observations and it was informing to read about the school uniforms and their use out of school hours. Indeed many of us would have kept them on after classes I expect. Girls seem more identifiable in their gym-slips whereas in the absence of a tie, the boys' shirts and trousers could be anything.

I also read the article in question and would like to add some more grist to the mill: In the first Find-Outers book there appears no evidence of maids and such and that is what we need in a court of law but if the Hiltons had perhaps used a babysitter I can't see the hired lady or gentleman allowing what could have been quite a dangerous outing although perhaps not quite so threatening in the Forties. I think the children would have been shunted off to bed as soon as possible so that the worker could enjoy a cosy evening with coffee and TV (but would there be a TV?) Furthermore, the kids were fully dressed and walking down the drive - not sneaking out. I think it would be a little taxing to imagine that Pip or Bets even knew there was a fire if they were in bed and probably asleep. Larry just happened to spot it because he was still up and his curtains were open at that late hour and presumably his room faces west. In the first book Mrs Hilton seems to handle everything and there's not much about Mr Hilton - but there never is. Twelve months later there was a cook and a gardener. Another year went by and I don't think the Hiltons had a live-in maid until Gladys appeared from the Home for Wayward Girls after yet another year had passed (Spiteful Letters). By this time Mr Hilton had probably been awarded a few promotions for being a Jolly Good Fellow because to raise such well-disciplined children he would have to be a pretty sound example himself and the extra money would have allowed his wife to afford a little more help round the place (and maybe a TV). Gladys had to appear in the book of course to take part in the plot.

Your acute observation in the first chapter of Burnt Cottage has made the "mess" even messier!

As far as The Mystery of the Secret Room is involved, I think the cover illustrations of the series portray fairly representative situations which occur in the stories and that even includes The Mystery of the Invisible Thief. As you say, the Find-Outers all climbed the tree but they were together when it happened and I'm sure that if the situation on Page 60 or the one on Page 97 was the cover subject then one or more of the children would surely be visible. Pip looks awfully lonely up there and his discovery is a very important aspect of the plot which is a quite appropriate subject to depict on the wrapper.

Thank you for writing to the EBSJ and sharing your ideas.

Daisy · Post by **Daisy** » 28 Oct 2006, 23:15

The observations above could be countered by asking why the domestic arrangements of the various households should all be set out before the stories begin. I understand that Tiq is suggesting Enid was overlooking basic child care laws, but children slipped out of their homes (fully dressed) for all sorts of reasons in many children's books and I think Enid was anxious to get on with the story in order to grip her readers quickly. There is nothing to suggest that live in staff arrived after this first book - they are just there when the story needs them! I imagine Pip & Bets heard lots of unusual noise on the night of the fire and curiosity getting the better of them they crept out - whether parents or others were actually in the house or not. We shall never know!
Regarding the illustration of Secret Room - yes I agree the others might have featured and made a more accurate picture but how many illustrators actually read the scripts carefully? The point made in the journal regarding the magistrates court in Six Bad Boys is just such an example of a deviation from the written word. I admire your observation. Even as an adult reading these books for the umpteenth time such items usually escape me completely!

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