Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Hannah]

As the booster is also a full adult dose, why don’t they weigh people? As far as I know I have had the same dose as a 6 + foot male, and I am a petite 5’3” female, so in effect I got more. That doesn’t make sense.

For vaccines it's mostly about how the immune system responds, it doesn't depend much on height or weight (except maybe in obese people because of effects the obesity might have on the immune system).

“Vaccines work differently [than medications] because it’s not about having a certain level of it in your blood, it’s about stimulating the immune system, and most people’s immune system’s will react to a very small amount of whatever it is that they’re being exposed to,” Dr. Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar with the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, told McClatchy News.

Source

But I think they are researching if a lower dose will do for the booster. In Moderna's vaccine it's already 50µg instead of 100µg.

[Anne Gracie]

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[Boatbuilder]

I can't read your article, Anne Gracie as it gets covered by a panel telling me I have reached my limit of free articles on the NYT (although I don't recall viewing any recently) and saying I must subscribe. I have also tried opening the link in a 'Private window' which would not have any cookies stored against it on my PC and it still shows the panel. The same happens on my iPad as well.

[pete9012S]

I found this article a good read, although it pertains to children, it is addressing the immune system vs weight issue.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/26/well ... t-age.html

When Vaccinating Kids, Does Weight Matter? Should an 11-Year-Old Wait to Turn 12 to Get a Bigger Dose?
We turned to five experts to answer these frequently-asked questions.

Children ages 5 to 11 may be eligible for the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid vaccine by early next month: two shots spaced three weeks apart. But unlike kids 12 and older, who get the same dosage as adults, the kids in the younger age group will receive 10 micrograms of vaccine per dose, or one-third the amount that a 12-year-old would get.

This has created some confusion for parents of 11-year-olds on the cusp of turning 12. Is it best to hold out for the larger dose? Or is it better to get the smaller dose right away? Does the weight or height of the child make any difference?

Five experts in immunology and infectious diseases agreed: The appropriate dosage is best determined by a child’s age — not their size. So if your 11-year-old is able to get the shot starting in November, do it right away rather than waiting for your child to turn 12.

The virus isn’t going away anytime soon, they said. And different variants could potentially make the virus more infectious or dangerous, said Donna L. Farber, a professor of microbiology and immunology at the Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons.


The sooner your child can be vaccinated the better, the experts said. The shot greatly reduces the chance of becoming severely ill from Covid and curbs the likelihood of getting infected in the first place and then passing that infection to others.

“Just do it,” Dr. Farber said.

Although many children who contract the virus will recover easily, “we cannot predict who is going to be very sick,” said Dr. Octavio Ramilo, chief of infectious diseases at Nationwide Children’s Hospital and a professor of pediatrics at Ohio State University.


More than 1,000 kids were hospitalized from Covid at Nationwide over the last year and a half, he added, and approximately half of them had been previously healthy.

Dr. Monica Gandhi, a professor of medicine and an infectious diseases expert at the University of California, San Francisco, said her younger son, who is turning 12 in February, will get vaccinated as soon as possible.

“Since the 10 microgram dose is so effective, I would stick with that dose for an 11-year-old,” she advised.


The two-dose 10 microgram shot in the vaccine trial of 5- to 11-year-olds had a nearly 91 percent efficacy rate, indicating it is very effective at preventing symptomatic infection in young children. In addition, there were not any new or unexpected side effects or safety concerns, according to a Food and Drug Administration review of Pfizer’s vaccine data.

Weight is an important factor when you give a young child medication like Tylenol because there is a wide variation in weight from infancy throughout childhood and too much of the drug could be toxic.

The optimal vaccine dose, however, is dependent on age and tailored to minimize potential side effects. A small 5-year-old and a large 5-year-old will have immune systems that are “functionally similar,” said Dr. David J. Rawlings, chief of the division of immunology at Seattle Children’s Hospital and director of the Center for Immunity Immunotherapies at Seattle Children’s Research Institute.

And children in the 5 to 11 age group “have a really robust immune system,” he added. That means they can get a lower vaccine dose than those in the 12 to 17 age group and still produce the same number of antibodies.

As an added bonus, with the 10-microgram dose researchers saw less fever and chills after the second dose among the 5- to 11-year-olds than they saw in the older kids who received higher doses.

At higher doses, the researchers observed more side effects in the younger children.

The bottom line: The appropriate vaccine dose is not determined by weight and “there are no patient weight requirements for Covid-19 vaccination,” the Centers for Disease Control says.

A most interesting article Anne Gracie - many thanks for sharing it.

[Moonraker]

All medicinal doses (as far as I know) are subject to the age of the person, not height or weight, so it doesn’t matter if you’re 4’10 or 6’0, 5 stone or 20 stone!

[Fiona1986]

For adults, but not always for children. I suspect that some adult medications would also go by weight in a hospital (and probably more should than actually are.)

You probably know all this Nigel - but for anyone else - over the counter medicines for children are by age but prescribed in a hospital they are done by weight. Some are by weight per dose - paracetamol for post-op pain is 15-20mg/kg but a loading dose (ie pre surgery) can be given at 20-30mg/kg, otherwise you can give an amount within the range suggested by the BNF (eg 30-60mg four times a day) but the exact amount should be calculated on the basis that there is a maximum mg/kg/day.

I occasionally check the weight dosage against the paracetamol dosing advice on the bottle, as some brands give different doses.

I have read of a case of an adult female in hospital dying of a paracetamol overdose as she was given the full adult dose 4 time a day for a period and it was just far too much for her as she was the height and weight of an average 12 year old. I've also read that the covid vaccination is less effective in obese people. I had assumed it was to do with the ratio of vaccine to weight but it may well be due to other health issues that go along with obesity?

[Hannah]

This is about some other vaccines but of course could be similar with Covid vaccines: The weight of obesity on the human immune response to vaccination

The immune system is adversely affected by obesity, and these “immune consequences” raise concern for the lack of vaccine-induced immunity in the obese patient requiring discussion of how this sub-population might be better protected.
...
Data suggest that obesity burdens the cellular immune response in addition to environmental or genetic factors.

[Lucky Star]

Moved from another topic.


I've finally caught Covid!!! Just when I had thought I'd got away with it. I've tested positive. It feels like a terribly bad cold so far. Just hoping it doesn't get any worse.

[pete9012S]

So sorry to hear that John. I hope you get through it ok.
All the best for a speedy recovery.
Keep in touch if you feel up to it.

Pete

[Julie2owlsdene]

Hope you're feeling better soon, John.

[Lucky Star]

Thanks Pete and Julie. I’m not feeling too bad. Good excuse to stay home.

[Anita Bensoussane]

I've finally caught Covid!!! Just when I had thought I'd got away with it. I've tested positive. It feels like a terribly bad cold so far. Just hoping it doesn't get any worse.

Sorry about that, John. Hope you don't suffer too much with it. I've just had Covid for the first time too, despite working in a large workplace. Like you, I'm surprised I didn't catch it earlier. I tested positive on Saturday night but tested negative yesterday and again today, so it seems to be out of my system now. I felt quite wiped out by it for a few days though, my main symptoms being stomach problems, coughing up, dizziness and fatigue.

[Katharine]

Sorry to hear about your Covid John and Anita. I hope you feel better soon.

[Boodi 2]

Sorry to hear that both Anita and Lucky Star caught Covid and hope they will soon be fully recovered. The rate of Covid infections continues to increase here in Germany, although most restrictions were lifted on Monday...needless to say, we continue to wear our masks in crowded places. Shops/restaurants/hairdressers etc are still allowed to enforce mask wearing if they see fit/feel safer, thus I was pleased to note that in Lidl about 75% of the customers (including myself) were masked and kept their distance and most of the staff were also masked. Hospitals and Care Homes still have the 3-G regulations in place. Will it ever end?

[Boatbuilder]

Anita and John (LS), I hope you are both fit and well soon.

Will it ever end?

I am beginning to wonder that myself, Monique. Now that 'free' rapid tests here in the UK are not avaialble for the majority of people, along with the now lack of compulsory rules, I believe we are losing track of where we really are as I doubt many people aren't willing to pay around £2 to buy the tests, especially with everything else rising in price at the highest levels seen in many years and wages,benefits and pension awards no where near matching these increases.

The Covid-19 figures now being published on the official gov.uk website say one thing - cases are falling - but the local media news (BBC-TV 'Look East') reported tonight that they are at their highest ever levels. Who/what are we supposed to believe?

The ONS (Office for National Statistics) also indicates that cases are much higher than the gov.uk statistics indicate. I know which ones I am inclined to believe and it's not those on the government website!!! I would imagine the BBC were quoting from that source tonight.

Having said all that and on a different note altogether, I am looking forward to seeing my younger daughter and grandchildren this Sunday, who are coming down from Lancashire to stay with us for four or five days for Enid's birthday next week. We haven't seen them since August 2020.