Learning Welsh (and Other Languages)

[number 6]

I keep saying to myself that I'd like to take a refresher course in Welsh, but I've just not got the will to do so at the moment! One minute I'm full of enthusiasm for it, the next it dies a death! I can't seem to get the motivation I need. I've possibly got too much on my mind to see it through.

[floragord]

Whilst away, we were reflecting on "hiraeth" and contemplating how it could be translated into English - nostalgia, longing for home, a sense of place - anyone?

[Daisy]

I lived in Cardiff in my teenage years. I understand there is no one word actual translation for "hiraeth". Your suggestions are similar to what I understand - a nostalgia with longing - even causing a pang of something one can't explain.

[floragord]

Thanks for that, Daisy, we couldn't quite nail down a definitive answer so will take the term to mean a touch of emotional attachment to place or time!

[Daisy]

I get the idea it was stronger than just a touch of emotional attachment... something rather deeper, maybe?

[Boatbuilder]

The definition of 'nostalgia' in the English dictionary is given as:

"a sentimental longing or wistful affection for a period in the past."

So surely the translation is just that - 'nostalgia' - as the rest goes with it.

[Daisy]

Yes, but the Welsh say that "hiraeth" is a little different from that, sort of that but rather more.

[Boatbuilder]

I think translations of words between all languages will always throw up anomalies as far as exact meanings in the different languages are concerned. Look how many words that are spelt the same in the English language have different meanings. The first one to immediately spring to mind is 'lead'.

This is what google throws up for the translation into Welsh of 'nostalgia'

https://translate.google.co.uk/#view=ho ... =nostalgia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now look at the translation for the word 'lead' (below) and the 615 additional ones you get if you click on the down-arrow at the bottom of the Welsh listing. Confusing or what?

https://translate.google.co.uk/#view=ho ... &text=lead" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Machupicchu14]

Really want to be be able to sit down and learn a language, but it seems I don't quite have an efficient method of learning one, as you all probably know I've been going on with a language for quite a long time now and progress is very slow still. So I was thinking, do any of you know any tips or recommendations for learning a language? I've tried Duolingo but it simply doesn't help at all...

[Wolfgang]

Maybe this might help, María Esther... https://tim.blog/2014/03/21/how-to-lear ... anguage-2/

[Courtenay]

Now that I live within an easy drive of North Wales, I go there regularly, and one of my favourite places is the beautiful island of Anglesey. I had a lovely couple of days there recently, staying in a B&B just outside the town of Menai Bridge (Porthaethwy in Welsh, which is a much more interesting name).

I love the spectacular views of the Menai Suspension Bridge, which was one of the first successful suspension bridges ever built, and in a couple of places in the town I encountered a famous Welsh englyn (alliterative poem) about the bridge — here it is from Wikipedia:

Uchelgaer uwch y weilgi – gyr y byd
Ei gerbydau drosti,
Chwithau, holl longau y lli,
Ewch o dan ei chadwyni.

— Dewi Wyn o Eifion

High fortress above the sea – the world drives
Its carriages across it;
And you, all you ships of the sea,
Pass beneath its chains.

— David Owen (1784–1841)

I was just looking at the Wikipedia page and, out of interest, decided to see what Google Translate would make of the Welsh words. So I picked up my smartphone and, for fun, turned on the camera function in the Google Translate app — the one that lets you point your phone camera at words in any language and they magically appear translated on the screen. Here's what it did to Dewi Wyn o Eifion's englyn:

High fortress of the wolverines - the herd of the world
His chariots over her.
Left, all the ships of the ley,
Get under her chains.

Hmmm — something tells me Google Translate's Welsh skills could possibly do with a bit of refining...

[Wolfgang]

Maybe it should communicate with ChatGPT?

[IceMaiden]

Hiraeth is longing. If you have hiraeth for something you have a longing or yearning for it.

[Boatbuilder]

Hiraeth is longing. If you have hiraeth for something you have a longing or yearning for it.

Gosh, IceMaiden, I was looking for 'hiraeth' in Courtenay's post and thought I must be needing new glasses. It was only when I did a 'find on the page' (CTRL+F on my computer) did it highlight the word in a floragord post from over three years ago.

Whilst away, we were reflecting on "hiraeth" and contemplating how it could be translated into English - nostalgia, longing for home, a sense of place - anyone?

[Courtenay]

Oh right, yes, I was going to say "hiraeth" is one of the relatively few Welsh words I definitely know the meaning of, but it's not in that poem!!

(Now I can just hear Harry Secombe belting it out: "We'll kiss away each hour of hiraeth / When you come home again to Wales..." )