EB's daughter said that it was Corfe Castle which inspired her mother to write FOATI.Courtenay wrote:I'm not sure, but I think I remember reading somewhere that Eileen Soper and Enid Blyton didn't have a lot of contact with each other over the Famous Five illustrations. We know Enid was familiar with Corfe Castle, but there's no solid evidence that she directly based Kirrin (or any of her other castles) on Corfe — and unless she had told Eileen herself that Corfe Castle was one of her inspirations, there's no reason to assume that Eileen ever thought of using Corfe as a model. Unless she happened to live somewhere near Dorset herself and might have been there — do we know where she lived before or during the time she was illustrating the Famous Five books?
I still think any evidence from the illustrations is far too sketchy (pardon the pun) to be taken seriously. There's nothing in any of them that clearly suggests Corfe Castle.
Eileen Soper
- Chrissie777
- Posts: 9448
- Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 16:54
- Favourite book/series: Famous Five, Adventure Series, Valley of Adventure
- Favourite character: George Kirrin, Jack Trent
- Location: Worcester, MA, USA
Re: Eileen Soper
Chrissie
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
- Chrissie777
- Posts: 9448
- Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 16:54
- Favourite book/series: Famous Five, Adventure Series, Valley of Adventure
- Favourite character: George Kirrin, Jack Trent
- Location: Worcester, MA, USA
Re: Eileen Soper
Yes, we drove by it twice and it looked exactly like Betty Maxey's illustration.Fiona1986 wrote:I've seen people say that Lulworth Castle was the inspiration for Malory Towers, that's in Dorset.
Chrissie
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
- Chrissie777
- Posts: 9448
- Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 16:54
- Favourite book/series: Famous Five, Adventure Series, Valley of Adventure
- Favourite character: George Kirrin, Jack Trent
- Location: Worcester, MA, USA
Re: Eileen Soper
Yes, it's the one.Courtenay wrote:Lulworth Castle does look likely as a Malory Towers model — here's a website — and it's near Wareham, which is on the way to Corfe Castle, so maybe that's the one you were thinking of, Chrissie.
Chrissie
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
- Chrissie777
- Posts: 9448
- Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 16:54
- Favourite book/series: Famous Five, Adventure Series, Valley of Adventure
- Favourite character: George Kirrin, Jack Trent
- Location: Worcester, MA, USA
Re: Eileen Soper
I like this Youtube clip on Corfe Castle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkjxiBVmT34&app=desktop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Chrissie
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
- Courtenay
- Posts: 19320
- Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 01:22
- Favourite book/series: The Adventure Series, Galliano's Circus
- Favourite character: Lotta
- Location: Both Aussie and British; living in Cheshire
Re: Eileen Soper
Yes, and Enid herself said it was a castle on one of the Channel Islands. Unfortunately that's one of those debates that could go on forever — my own stance on it is that Enid in her imagination probably borrowed elements of more than one castle she'd seen and put them together and came up with a castle that suited her story, perhaps not fully conscious of where she was getting the ideas from in the first place.Chrissie777 wrote: EB's daughter said that it was Corfe Castle which inspired her mother to write FOATI.
The clincher for me, though, is that Corfe Castle looks nothing like Kirrin Castle as Enid describes it — I don't have the book here, but I remember clearly she describes Kirrin Castle as having two towers, one almost fallen down, the other not as bad. Corfe Castle doesn't have any towers, just a keep. So while she probably did take some general ideas for "adventures in a ruined castle" from Corfe, she certainly doesn't seem to have used the actual structure of Corfe Castle as the model for Kirrin Castle.
And again, there's no evidence (as far as I've ever seen) that Enid pointed out Corfe Castle to Eileen Soper as a model for the illustrations, and Soper's illustrations don't look recognisably like Corfe. So I'm not quite sure how the idea came up that Soper had any knowledge of Corfe Castle (either firsthand or from Enid) at all.
Society Member
It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
- pete9012S
- Posts: 17649
- Joined: 24 Jan 2010, 15:32
- Favourite book/series: Five On A Treasure Island
- Favourite character: Frederick Algernon Trotteville
- Location: UK
Re: Eileen Soper
Thanks Chrissie - I've never been to Corfe, but would love to go!Chrissie777 wrote:I like this Youtube clip on Corfe Castle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkjxiBVmT34&app=desktop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" A kind heart always brings its own reward," said Mrs. Lee.
- The Christmas Tree Aeroplane -
Society Member
- The Christmas Tree Aeroplane -
Society Member
- Courtenay
- Posts: 19320
- Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 01:22
- Favourite book/series: The Adventure Series, Galliano's Circus
- Favourite character: Lotta
- Location: Both Aussie and British; living in Cheshire
Re: Eileen Soper
It's really worth it, Pete — very atmospheric and fascinating history. The only downside is that the wonderful Ginger Pop Shop is no longer there in the village. But the castle itself is definitely worth the trip, and if you like steam trains, there's one of those between Corfe and Swanage too.
Society Member
It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
- pete9012S
- Posts: 17649
- Joined: 24 Jan 2010, 15:32
- Favourite book/series: Five On A Treasure Island
- Favourite character: Frederick Algernon Trotteville
- Location: UK
Re: Eileen Soper
Thank you for that lovely email and the fantastic pictures of Corfe Chrissie.
With your permission I have made them available for all to enjoy here:
Chrissie's Corfe Castle Pics!
https://imgur.com/a/2AvY5wS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Best Wishes
Pete
With your permission I have made them available for all to enjoy here:
Chrissie's Corfe Castle Pics!
https://imgur.com/a/2AvY5wS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Best Wishes
Pete
" A kind heart always brings its own reward," said Mrs. Lee.
- The Christmas Tree Aeroplane -
Society Member
- The Christmas Tree Aeroplane -
Society Member
- Courtenay
- Posts: 19320
- Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 01:22
- Favourite book/series: The Adventure Series, Galliano's Circus
- Favourite character: Lotta
- Location: Both Aussie and British; living in Cheshire
Re: Eileen Soper
Excellent photos, Chrissie! Thanks to you and to Pete for sharing.
Society Member
It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
- Chrissie777
- Posts: 9448
- Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 16:54
- Favourite book/series: Famous Five, Adventure Series, Valley of Adventure
- Favourite character: George Kirrin, Jack Trent
- Location: Worcester, MA, USA
Re: Eileen Soper
We went to Jersey in May 2014 to visit Elizabeth Castle which is cut off from the main land during high tide, but it looks even less than Kirrin Castle to me.Courtenay wrote:The clincher for me, though, is that Corfe Castle looks nothing like Kirrin Castle as Enid describes it — I don't have the book here, but I remember clearly she describes Kirrin Castle as having two towers, one almost fallen down, the other not as bad. Corfe Castle doesn't have any towers, just a keep. So while she probably did take some general ideas for "adventures in a ruined castle" from Corfe, she certainly doesn't seem to have used the actual structure of Corfe Castle as the model for Kirrin Castle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Castle" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Chrissie
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
- Chrissie777
- Posts: 9448
- Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 16:54
- Favourite book/series: Famous Five, Adventure Series, Valley of Adventure
- Favourite character: George Kirrin, Jack Trent
- Location: Worcester, MA, USA
Re: Eileen Soper
Thank you, Pete. You are a sweetheart.pete9012S wrote:Thank you for that lovely email and the fantastic pictures of Corfe Chrissie.
With your permission I have made them available for all to enjoy here:
Chrissie's Corfe Castle Pics!
Best Wishes
Pete
Chrissie
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
- Chrissie777
- Posts: 9448
- Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 16:54
- Favourite book/series: Famous Five, Adventure Series, Valley of Adventure
- Favourite character: George Kirrin, Jack Trent
- Location: Worcester, MA, USA
Re: Eileen Soper
Thank you, Courtenay.Courtenay wrote:Excellent photos, Chrissie! Thanks to you and to Pete for sharing.
Chrissie
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
- Courtenay
- Posts: 19320
- Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 01:22
- Favourite book/series: The Adventure Series, Galliano's Circus
- Favourite character: Lotta
- Location: Both Aussie and British; living in Cheshire
Re: Eileen Soper
No, it doesn't, I agree. I assume Enid meant she got the idea of a castle on an island from the Channel Islands, but her description of Kirrin Castle itself is probably based on "bits" of several castles she'd seen. There doesn't seem to be any one single real-life castle that matches the description well enough to be THE "inspiration for Kirrin Castle", or that matches Eileen Soper's illustrations closely enough to be pinned down as a definite model. That's all I was saying.Chrissie777 wrote: We went to Jersey in May 2014 to visit Elizabeth Castle which is cut off from the main land during high tide, but it looks even less than Kirrin Castle to me.
Society Member
It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
-
- Posts: 1948
- Joined: 13 Jun 2012, 17:06
- Favourite book/series: Famous Five / Five Find-Outers
- Location: UK
Re: Eileen Soper
I can't add anything to this except to say that the last picture, in particular, looks absolutely beautiful to me. I'd love a poster-sized print of it on my wall.Anita Bensoussane wrote:I also love the Nature Plates (a few of my favourites are below) which were used in classrooms to accompany Enid Blyton's Nature Readers. Absolutely stunning.
Society Member
- Chrissie777
- Posts: 9448
- Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 16:54
- Favourite book/series: Famous Five, Adventure Series, Valley of Adventure
- Favourite character: George Kirrin, Jack Trent
- Location: Worcester, MA, USA
Re: Eileen Soper
Absolutely gorgeous!Jack400 wrote:I can't add anything to this except to say that the last picture, in particular, looks absolutely beautiful to me. I'd love a poster-sized print of it on my wall.
Chrissie
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock
Society Member
"For me, the cinema is not a slice of life, but a piece of cake."
Alfred Hitchcock