Vague Suggestion

[Yak]

In the SC quiz thread on games, the person who got the question right has not been back within a fortnight, so the thread has stalled. I've taken it on myself, therefore, to post a new question and declare the old one void. I do know that people have real lives and can't always get to a thread promptly, but I think that two weeks is ample time to get back to something if you're going to.

I did, several days ago, post a reminder in the thread to the poster in question, to no avail.

Would it be possible to have some formal time limit for the games forum whereby if someone has not come back and posted a new question, the original poster can pose a new one?

[Anita Bensoussane]

That's fine, Yak. We've discussed that problem in the past and had already decided that a time limit of a fortnight was about right.

[Fatty]

It happened to me once on the Caption Competition thread over two years ago, when I came down with chicken pox (at the age of 39!) and went offline for something like six weeks. I was finding it a big strain to peer at a computer screen, and no doubt the abstinence did me good. Unfortunately, I failed to realise I was the winner of that particular caption contest -- I got to know of it much later, by which time a new picture had been posted (and rightly so). A fortnight looks about right.

Speaking of the caption contest, I have a not-so-vague suggestion. We've seen how it can be a pain choosing a winner for this (unlike in the regular quizzes, where matters are simpler). If the original poster doesn't announce the name of the winner, it's difficult to proceed. Things would be easier if we could have a poll, but it was pointed out this would require the creation of a new thread for each picture, which really isn't practicable.

My suggestion is: would it be possible to enable a 'like' option as in Facebook (or Google's '+1')? A person will be able to 'vote' for multiple entries, but this is fine. What's important is that each person will be able to 'like' each caption only once, and it would be easy to figure out at the end of two weeks who's got the most likes (or +1s or whatever) and everybody will know whose turn it is next (except in case of a tie, but let's leave that for later). I feel this would be a more 'democratic' way of passing the baton.

Another alternative is to allow members to 'thank' useful posts. You might have seen the line "The following users say thank you to xxx for this useful post" [see screenshot below]. If this can be customised to read '"The following users say 'jolly good' to xxx for this witty/clever/wunnerful caption" it would be even better. However, these pseudo-thanks shouldn't show up next to the person's name in the profile view!

A tech-savvy moderator (Matt?) could tell us how workable these options are. Even if our platform allows it, the script could be a pain to implement for all I know -- and hence not worth the effort.

[Anita Bensoussane]

A tech-savvy moderator (Matt?) could tell us how workable these options are. Even if our platform allows it, the script could be a pain to implement for all I know -- and hence not worth the effort.

Interesting suggestions, Fatty. Matt might know how workable they are but he only pops in from time to time, so I think Keith would be the one to ask.

[Fatty]

I thought Keith was just as hard to sight as Matt but I guess he's more active in the background than on the forum and I don't realise it. Anyway, I realise that even if my suggestion is workable, implementing it may not be easy and the drawbacks (say, tied scores) could cause problems.

The *other* problem (and I just realised it now) is that democracy may not always ensure equal representation. In other words, the same few people may get to post new pics all the time. (I'm sure you aren't looking forward to posting a pic every two weeks, are you, Anita?) Of course, the one who posts a pic can be barred from posting a caption but this doesn't seem a happy or effective solution. With the existing system even a newcomer stands a chance. I've often felt that the caption 'winner' is often chosen for not just how witty the caption is but how long it's been since s/he last got a chance to post a pic.

[Anita Bensoussane]

Yes, Matt looked in on the forums recently after a long absence but Keith has done all the technical stuff for quite a while now.

As you say, Fatty, problems could arise with the system you suggest but if it at least seems workable we could always give it a trial.

[Keith Robinson]

Hello Fatty! Yes, I'm here in the background. I don't look in that often but am always ready to pop in when called upon (usually when Anita or Tony emails me to say "take a look at this").

I had a quick check around and it seems that there's only one (much sought after) mod for a "LIKE" button on these PHPBB forums. That mod might work, but it's still in development and only likes an entire thread, not individual posts within a thread. As you said, I don't think that's practical. There's also a standard Facebook "LIKE" button, but that's Facebook-related and not much use.

So I looked at "THANKS" mods, and found one that turns out to be exactly like a "LIKE" mod. This one might work, but it's important to note that, once installed, the little "thumbs-up" icon is available in every post of every thread across the entire board. Still, that might not necessarily be a bad thing. The clickable thumb icon would appear something like this:

http://www.phpbb.com/community/download ... p?id=83835

Here's some more info about it, along with screenshots. The English is bad, but that probably won't be noticed on the actual boards:

http://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/thanks_for_posts

So let me know if y'all think that might be worth installing. I can't guarantee it will work, but I won't know until I try. Or there are probably others I could look into. If anyone wants to search around, Google "phpbb thanks mod" and go from there.

[Moonraker]

Maybe we need a poll! Personally, I am happy that the winner is chosen by the poser, as it is now. However, always happy to go with the majority!

[Keith Robinson]

Maybe we need a poll! Personally, I am happy that the winner is chosen by the poser, as it is now. However, always happy to go with the majority!

I meant to say that I like that idea too. How hard would that be? Worth a try?

[Fatty]

Thumb looks fine, and the 'thanks' option might be a good way to acknowledge useful posts by members, but on the other hand using it for the caption contest would dilute its impact (I presume there would be a number on the sidebar next to your name indicating the number of times you've thanked others / been thanked). So, while it may not work for the caption contest, it may work across the board and might help reduce the 'I agree' and 'seconded' posts to some extent.

Now that you're here, Keith, let me put out a couple of other suggestions. The first is a mobile version (or skin, if you will) that's stripped of all graphics and photos and loads quickly in mobile phones. I access the site from my phone frequently, and it can sometimes be slow. At least I'm on an unlimited data plan. Those on a limited data plan will face even more problems. Of course, it makes sense to work on this only if you're sure enough people access the site via a mobile handset. The URL could be an intuitive http://m.enidblytonsociety.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; or something of the sort.

The other suggestion is to enable the mouse-over option so that one can read the first few lines of the first post in a thread by positioning the mouse pointer over the link. This will help one decide if the topic's interesting enough to click on immediately or if it can safely be left for later. I'm assuming PHPBB boards should support this. Again, I guess this would benefit mobile users more than those logging in from a PC, so I'll leave it to you to decide if the effort's worth it.

The third and final (for now) suggestion is to exclude posts in off-topic threads (General Natter, Games, Personal introductions etc.) from a member's total post count. Not such a big deal, but it would give an idea of who actually contributes *useful* posts. I would be one of those who would see his post count plummet if this is implemented though, since I'm most active in the Games section.

[Keith Robinson]

It's funny you should mention mobile versions, Fatty. This year I expect to do a lot of those for my existing website clients (and have already started on a few). I've done one my own blog/site, and while I'm not trying to plug it here, you might be interested to see the difference.

The main website is http://www.unearthlytales.com. But if you visit this on your mobile phone, it will auto-redirect you to http://m.unearthlytales.com where you'll get a much simpler version. (You can click to visit the mobile version on a computer but it'll look hideous! Although if you reduce your window down so that the title "Fantasy books for young adult and middle grade readers" wraps after the word "and" then you'll get a much better idea of what it looks like in a mobile phone.) The difference is that mobile phone users can now read blog posts without loading all the other stuff to the sides, and without zooming in to read the miniature text. I've also included a page for links to Amazon for Kindle versions of the books. In short, it's worth doing in the long run. (iPad and Kindle Fire users will see the full website though; they're big enough screens that they don't need mobile versions.)

Recently, someone requested a mobile version of EnidBlyton.net. It's not the first time I've been asked, but as I said, this year I've already set out to mobilize a lot of my client websites. With this in mind, I've started databasing EnidBlyton.net in full so I can easily display the content in a mobile phone format. So I'm working on the main site first (creating a new skin in the process) and then I'll take the next step and mobilize it.

I could do something similar with the Society website (a lot of which is already databased), but there are a lot of questions to be asked -- mainly, which pages need to mobilized and which can/should be omitted. Not everything needs to be on a mobile phone. The forums are a whole different section and that would probably be very fiddly to format, but it's possible of course. The problem is that it's not really the graphics that makes it slow-loading -- it's the amount of database requests that have to be performed on every page load. Can't do anything about that, though.

As for omitting "idle chatter" posts from overall post counts... I don't think so. I can see your reasoning but I think it would be a futile task to filter "chatter" from "useful" unless we installed a mod that allows writers to designate what kind of post they're writing!! Don't forget, many people "chat" within useful threads as well, not to mention the sheer number of "thanks!" and "I agree!" posts.

A mouse-over option to read the first few lines of a post? That's a good idea; I'll look into it. But it's not high on my To-Do list at the moment. Certainly when I get around to mobilizing the site and forums, but that won't be for a while, probably a month or so at least.

[Anita Bensoussane]

I looked at "THANKS" mods, and found one that turns out to be exactly like a "LIKE" mod. This one might work, but it's important to note that, once installed, the little "thumbs-up" icon is available in every post of every thread across the entire board. Still, that might not necessarily be a bad thing. The clickable thumb icon would appear something like this:

http://www.phpbb.com/community/download ... p?id=83835

Here's some more info about it, along with screenshots. The English is bad, but that probably won't be noticed on the actual boards:

http://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/thanks_for_posts

So let me know if y'all think that might be worth installing.

Thanks, Keith. Whew, quite a lot to take in there! So, as I understand it, the "THANK" (or "LIKE") icon would appear on every post in every thread across the board. And we would be able to see how many "THANKS" an individual post had received, which would be useful for the Caption Competition.

Looking at Screenshot 1, does that mean that individual users can disable the "THANK" option for their posts if they like?

Screenshot 4 - It looks as though the "ratings" (blue stars, red bars or whatever) can also be disabled. Does that mean individual users can disable them for their posts? And/or does it mean that mods/admin can disable them for the whole forum?

I'm unsure about all this because, not being a user of Facebook or Twitter or anything similar, I'm not used to using "LIKE" or "THANK" buttons. The idea of those ratings stars/bars unsettles me as I feel there's a possibility of people becoming competitive or feeling insulted if their rating is low. Even if we decide not to have the ratings stars/bars, which are very bold and obvious, it's possible that people might still feel the same way if their number of "LIKES"/"THANKS" is low.

Having said that, I realise that these kinds of things are popular on sites like Facebook etc. and that a lot of people probably feel perfectly comfortable with them. So if the general consensus is that it's worth a try, that's fine by me. What does everyone think?

[Fatty]

The idea of those ratings stars/bars unsettles me as I feel there's a possibility of people becoming competitive or feeling insulted if their rating is low. Even if we decide not to have the ratings stars/bars, which are very bold and obvious, it's possible that people might still feel the same way if their number of "LIKES"/"THANKS" is low.

Having said that, I realise that these kinds of things are popular on sites like Facebook etc. and that a lot of people probably feel perfectly comfortable with them. So if the general consensus is that it's worth a try, that's fine by me. What does everyone think?

Being a long-time user of Facebook, I feel the novelty wears off after a while. Indeed, I seldom pay much attention to any 'likes' my photos and comments get, because it's become second nature for many people to hit the Like button as a lazy way to indicate 'I hear ye'. People being competitive isn't necessarily a bad thing - if it means they spend more time compiling readable posts. Not sure about the ratings though - those sound trickier. I haven't checked Keith's links because I'm still using my phone to access this site.

By the way, Keith, I checked out the mobile version of your site, and I must say it's very easy on the eyes. I mean that in both senses of the term: legible and attractive. I haven't been visiting it lately because fantasy isn't my thing at all, but I realise I've been missing out of other topics of general interest that you often post about. So I've bookmarked the site and will check in more frequently now. But why have you disabled comments for old blog entries? Sometimes people just surf by at random (often following some other link or while doing a web search) and might have something to add to an old conversation.

One thing I noticed - my phone automatically went to the mobile site, but clicking on a link to another blog post *within* a blog entry took me to the regular site with all the bells and whistles and I had to resort to zooming and panning again! I'm referring to the 'creepy' post involving Rosson. Is this a known glitch, and something you can fix by tweaking the links included in a blog post? I hope you won't have to fix each link individually though!

[70s-child]

So if the general consensus is that it's worth a try, that's fine by me. What does everyone think?

Personally, I like the idea (sorry Moonraker, no offense meant!). I don't post on the caption thread (I know my limitations! ), but I really enjoy reading other people's captions. However, I also don't want to constantly post random comments saying I like/love x, y, z's caption, because it could get out of hand and become spam-like, and also because I don't want to derail the thread. A "like" or "rate" option would be perfect in my opinion. I am, however, less keen on it appearing against every post, since it could make life a little competitive, and may even put people off from posting, especially if they are still new to the forums. Still, I think it is worth trying.

Incidentally, I hope the ratings options will only be available to people who log in, rather than random visitors to the website?

Finally, Keith, if you are taking suggestions on board, may I suggest that the 'Personal Photographs' thread be made available exclusively to people who are logged in? Maybe I am being paranoid, but I feel that keeping this thread public maybe a security risk to people who put up their photographs, especially if they are minors. But again, maybe my reaction is over-the-top.

[Keith Robinson]

...But why have you disabled comments for old blog entries? Sometimes people just surf by at random (often following some other link or while doing a web search) and might have something to add to an old conversation.

I did that fairly recently because, overnight, I had about 50 spam emails come through on random old posts. It was like a spammer was going through methodically posting on each page, even though on the main website I have a rudimentary "human verification" question that prevents auto-bots. So this spammer was probably a human filling out the comment form on each post. I threw in a block on old posts just to put an end to it.

In fact, pretty much ALL spam I receive is on old posts. And I find that rare comments I receive on old posts are not really worth having, if you see what I mean. The topic is done and dusted and I don't usually feel like getting into it again. But who knows, I may open up comments on old posts again.

One thing I noticed - my phone automatically went to the mobile site, but clicking on a link to another blog post *within* a blog entry took me to the regular site with all the bells and whistles and I had to resort to zooming and panning again! I'm referring to the 'creepy' post involving Rosson. Is this a known glitch, and something you can fix by tweaking the links included in a blog post? I hope you won't have to fix each link individually though!

Yes, I'm aware of this. I'm not 100% finished with it, and that's one thing I need to deal with. At the moment, only the home page has the code that automatically detects when you're on a mobile phone, hence why you went off to the main site. I need to add some code to automatically convert all internal links from "http://www.unearthlytales.com" to "http://m.unearthlytales.com" when read on a mobile phone. I also need to check images and other things and see what I can do to make sure nothing exceeds the width of the phone screen. It's all very awkward! But no, I certainly don't intend fixing things individually; I just have to work in some auto-fixing code and hope I've taken all eventualities into account.