The Enid Blyton Society

Courtenay wrote:...two elderly people living in the caves on their own for several years, with no contact with the outside world and no means of replenishing their supplies, is just too unbelievable for me. Well, of course there's always a bit of suspension of disbelief involved in an Enid Blyton story, but that part is somehow a bit too much of a stretch... Other than that, though, it's an absolutely brilliant and atmospheric and incredibly exciting story and I would probably rate it as my third favourite.

Courtenay, didn't canned goods last several years already in WW II?
I've never questioned it when I read this sequel when I was a child.
Plus they had an egg every once in a while.

Oh, canned goods definitely existed then and would have kept for years, but when you consider they would have needed at least a few tins between the two of them every day, presumably every single day, for several years... that's a lot of tins. We're conveniently not told many details of how exactly they survived or indeed precisely how long they were there, but as I said, it does stretch belief a bit. Even a couple of younger, stronger people, one can imagine, would have found it a difficult existence out there on their own; for two elderly people, it's even harder to credit.

Isn't there anyone else who struggles a bit with this aspect of the plot, or is it just because I discovered this book as an adult and never had the benefit of reading it with a child's lack of interest in such practical details??

The story of the old couple is so poignant and touching and unexpected that I can readily overlook any improbabilities. In the topsy-turvy world of war and its aftermath, I'm sure that much stranger things than that happened!

I've never really considered it to be honest, I always assumed the book wasn't set too long after the war, otherwise surely people would have attempted to clear the blocked pass to see how bad the valley was affected? I never thought the old people had been underground for years on end, months maybe that seemed so long they felt like years to them.

I don't think they'd eat much either, they'd ration it and manage on as little as possible, they wouldn't exactly be burning much energy shut up in a cave to require heaps of food. It is possible to manage on the bare minimum to eat, I've done it myself as an experiment to see how long in the day it takes before you start to feel really hungry. It's not particularly comfortable but then again neither is living like a mole underground .

Now where they got a near constant supply of drinking water on the other hand is a different matter, short of collecting some rain water in a container set outside the cave, I can't see how they'd manage that one .

IceMaiden wrote:
Now where they got a near constant supply of drinking water on the other hand is a different matter, short of collecting some rain water in a container set outside the cave, I can't see how they'd manage that one .

Maybe our friend Pete has some ideas on that??

I must admit it never really crossed my mind about how long the couple had really been there, or how they survived regards food and water etc - but then this is one of only three Adventure books I read as a child, so maybe when I first read it I didn't give it a thought, and therefore have accepted it since!

I did think that it said somewhere in the text that Martha the hen was the only one left of quite a number of hens...? And was there mention of a goat? Maybe I'm making that one up, as its a couple of years since I last read it, but I always felt there were more animals and larger supplies, which had dwindled over the years.

I ought to re-read it myself and go over that part more carefully, to be fair. I guess I assumed while reading it that they must have been hiding there with all the treasures since Hitler took over Austria in 1938, and since the book was published in 1947 and is presumably set at about that time (as the war is obviously over), the elderly couple could have been in the caves for as long as 9 years. Of course it might have been later, during the war, that the treasures were hidden, but I got the impression it was before the conflict actually started. I could be wrong, though — as I said, I need to re-read the book!

There were more hens to start with... and I too didn't question the length of time when I first read the book as a child. As for water - bowls to catch rainwater on the ledge where they could get into the open air, I suppose?

I also can't remember when the valley became blocked off from the outside world? maybe regular supplies were secretly taken to the old couple before it was blocked up, through part of the war? As I say, not sure of the details.

We don't know exactly when Elsa and her husband (we never get to know his name!) went to the caves but it was after the troubles had started because they talk of some neighbours dying at the hands of the enemy and of others fleeing. They also speak of their little granddaughter, Greta, who lived with them in the valley. One day she was taken away by the enemy, never to be seen again. Julius Muller had found Elsa and her husband hiding somewhere in the valley after everyone else had been killed or had fled. He knew there were treasures in the caves, stolen and stashed there by the Nazis, and the couple agreed to guard them for the people of Austria. Julius intended to return to the valley when the war ended, but by that time the pass was blocked.

IceMaiden wrote:I don't think they'd eat much either, they'd ration it and manage on as little as possible, they wouldn't exactly be burning much energy shut up in a cave to require heaps of food. It is possible to manage on the bare minimum to eat, I've done it myself as an experiment to see how long in the day it takes before you start to feel really hungry. It's not particularly comfortable but then again neither is living like a mole underground .

You can live on 600 calories for quite a while as long as you are not working hard (physically). I did a lot of fasting in my life, learned how to do it properly at a clinic in Germany where they also told us that the human body has enough protein stored for 90 months which it can use up, then it uses up water and at last fat in the body.

I don't know how many calories the rationing during WW II was per adult, but believe it was less than 1.000 calories.

They entered the caves when "the enemy" began bombing. That would have not been until almost the end of the war and the book was written in 1947 so they were probably there for about two years or so. Many Jews lived in hiding for periods of six or seven years during WW2 and deserters and displaced persons lived in camps, forests etc for the duration as well. There was, alas, nothing very unusual in people living in odd circumstances during the war. In fact a cosy cave with lots of food and artworks to admire would have been positively luxurious compared to some people's arrangements at that time.

Valley was a very early childhood read for me. It may in fact have been my second book ever as I know that Sea was my first "real" book. I certainly did not ever think there was anything strange about the characters and their living arrangements. I just thought the whole thing very wild and exciting which I suspect was Enid's intention.

Lucky Star wrote:They entered the caves when "the enemy" began bombing. That would have not been until almost the end of the war and the book was written in 1947 so they were probably there for about two years or so. Many Jews lived in hiding for periods of six or seven years during WW2 and deserters and displaced persons lived in camps, forests etc for the duration as well. There was, alas, nothing very unusual in people living in odd circumstances during the war. In fact a cosy cave with lots of food and artworks to admire would have been positively luxurious compared to some people's arrangements at that time.

That does make sense, thanks, Lucky Star. As I said, I'll have to re-read the book (the whole series, really) some time soon — I've only read it the once!

I think Lucky Star has answered the question about the length of time the old couple spent in the caves very well. I've read this book many times and it has never bothered me that Elsa and her husband spent so much time alone. If the pass hadn't been bombed, they would have been liberated much sooner.

Having recently re-read (first time since childhood!) books 1-7 in this series (onto River, now), I've found these stories as new to me and even as an adult reader finding myself whizzing through them I've found any narrative questions in my mind answered quite well, including the old couple in Valley and their supplies, perhaps I'm too easily pleased!

I'd have Valley and Sea in joint first place with Castle, Island, Circus, Ship and in last place, Mountain in that order. Though, saying that, they've all been very entertaining, well, mostly!