Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

The books! Over seven hundred of them and still counting...
Post Reply
User avatar
Carlotta King
Posts: 2828
Joined: 15 Mar 2013, 19:01
Favourite book/series: Adventure, Barney, Secret Series, Famous Five
Favourite character: Bill Smugs,Lucy-Ann,Snubby,Mr King,Diana,Kiki,Paul
Location: England

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by Carlotta King »

Haha what a bunch we are - none of us can remember anything!!! :lol:
"Fussy Gussy! Polly, Polly, Polly-gize!"

Society Member
User avatar
number 6
Posts: 4342
Joined: 11 Jun 2010, 17:12
Favourite book/series: Famous Five
Favourite character: George/Jo
Location: Robin Hood Country

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by number 6 »

Just before Five on a Treasure Island was written, Enid took her two Daughters by Steam Train up to Corfe Castle. They would visit several times before & after the book was released. Why would she use a Castle in Jersey as her inspiration for Kirrin Castle when Corfe was right in her face during her first visits to Swanage/Corfe? Surely Corfe Castle would influence her imagination, rather than a distant Castle in Jersey! Corfe was right there, at the right time, for the FOATI idea/story. Why would she wait until book 11 to use Corfe(Faynights) in a F5 book? It doesn't make sense, especially as she spent several holidays a year in Dorset, with CC dominating the Purbecks!
I think the inspiration for Kirrin Castle is firmly the one at Corfe!
The letter Enid wrote was many years later ( I think) & probably over time her locations were jumbled up.
I think Viv (Ginger pop) is bang on. The island is in Jersey, with Corfe Castle sat on top of it!
Tony Summerfield
Posts: 6386
Joined: 26 Dec 2004, 12:20

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by Tony Summerfield »

This is all speculation and certainly not proof. There is no evidence at all that Enid spent much time in Dorset before the first Famous Five book was written. When the children were young their holidays were spent on the Isle of Wight. We know that Corfe was used as Kirrin Castle in the 50s film, but that is the sum total of any hard evidence. Enid never mentioned Corfe in any of her letters.
User avatar
Anita Bensoussane
Forum Administrator
Posts: 26772
Joined: 30 Jan 2005, 23:25
Favourite book/series: Adventure series, Six Cousins books, Six Bad Boys
Favourite character: Jack Trent, Fatty and Elizabeth Allen
Location: UK

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

number 6 wrote:The letter Enid wrote was many years later ( I think) & probably over time her locations were jumbled up.
I just took Journal 31 down from the shelf and re-read Tony's article about Kirrin, followed by Trevor Bolton's comments about his letter from Enid Blyton, and then the actual letter. Trevor corresponded with Enid Blyton for years and he says, "When I was a boy she informed me (more than once) that Kirrin Island was an island she had seen during a holiday on Jersey and many years later when I was an adult, the same information appeared in the enclosed letter so it surely must be true."

Therefore it doesn't sound as though Enid could have got her locations jumbled up over time, as she had stated from the beginning that she was inspired by a location in Jersey.

In her letter, Enid says of Kirrin Island, "It was an island I once visited several times when I was in Jersey - it lay off the coast & could only be reached either by boat or by a rocky path exposed when the tide was out. It had an old castle there and I longed to put the island & castle into a book. So I did, as you know!"

Enid Blyton visited the island several times, so she obviously felt drawn to it and it must have left a great impression on her. Tony says in his article that he and Islander (who lived in Jersey and posted regularly on the forums at the time) had done some research and felt that the small island and castle in the bay at St. Aubin matched Enid's description most closely.

Tony also talks of how Enid Blyton was present during part of the filming of the 1950s Five on a Treasure Island film. Corfe Castle was used as Kirrin Castle, but Enid Blyton didn't make any reference to that even though she mentioned the film a number of times in Enid Blyton's Magazine. On 24th October 1956 she wrote, "I am just back from a short stay in Dorset, where I was able to see part of the Famous Five film being made. How you would have loved watching it! In the distance was the castle we are using for Kirrin Castle, and I stood beside the bay that will now be Kirrin Bay." Tony points out, "So there is no actual mention of Corfe and no positive statement to say that this was the castle that she had originally modelled Kirrin Castle on. Had this been the case I feel that Enid might have taken the opportunity to endorse this location, even if she hadn't actually mentioned Corfe by name."

Of course, Kirrin Castle and Kirrin Island were only inspired by the castle and island in Jersey - they weren't modelled on them stone for stone. Kirrin certainly wasn't in the Channel Islands and there was no rocky path leading to Kirrin Island at low tide. Other details, such as the well and the dungeons, might easily have been dreamt up by Enid Blyton as they were needed for the plot. As plenty of people have said before, much of Kirrin came from Enid's imagination and it probably included bits and pieces of various bays, castles and islands she had known.
number 6 wrote:Why would she wait until book 11 to use Corfe(Faynights) in a F5 book?
Is Faynights Castle supposed to have been based on Corfe Castle too?! Thinking that Soper's pictures might be influencing people rather than Blyton's descriptions, I had a look in the Cave at the illustrations for Five on a Treasure Island (Kirrin Castle) and Five Have a Wonderful Time (Faynights Castle) and neither castle looked much like Corfe to me. My own copies of those books are Knight paperbacks and they both have Betty Maxey pictures, so I didn't grow up with the Eileen Soper ones. Is there anything in Enid Blyton's descriptions to make readers think of Corfe in connection with Faynights?
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


Society Member
User avatar
Spitfire
Posts: 1055
Joined: 16 Jun 2010, 20:57
Favourite book/series: Most of the stand-alone stories
Favourite character: Snubby & Mr. Twiddle.

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by Spitfire »

What a wonderful letter about the old castle on the previous page – and thanks for your details in the above post, Anita. It does shed a lot of light on the facts.

Although it's clear that the island in Jersey did inspire Enid to create Kirrin Island, I honestly don’t believe that writers need such specific inspiration as often as people seem to think. The world is a constant, evergreen source of inspiration to a talent such as Enid was, and with an imagination as fertile as hers, a big idea could grow out of very little. Places that she visited certainly would inspire her imagination, but there’s really no knowing exactly how that fed into her writing - unless she actually tells us, of course, as in the letter quoted above. What a wonderful feeling it must have been for her, visiting that island in Jersey and feeling her imagination so stirred!

Enid was talented enough to not need much help in inventing an imaginary island, so Kirrin is NOT the island in Jersey; and this would have been an easy transition for her. Close your eyes, and imagine a broad expanse of sea... now, out of the sparkling depths, conjure up a small, rock-bound island. (It is just off the mainland, like that island in Jersey, but with no causeway.) Give it clean sandy coves, build a ruined castle and dress it with circling jackdaws and tame rabbits to add atmosphere. There. Already it is a solid image: a background for thunderstorms, smugglers and treasure hunts; already, features such as caves and dungeons and secret passages and old stone fireplaces suggest themselves as delicious future possibilities...

With reference to the letter about that other castle on the previous page, what I find interesting it is that it seems to me that Enid left the castle behind her as surely as she took it with her!! She saw the castle on the hill and went to see it. She sat and soaked up the atmosphere and obviously thought very deeply about the place; how it had been centuries before, and how it was the day she visited it. Then she went away, looking forward to seeing her pets again, and getting on with life. She was impressed, but not excited. There was no Eureka moment. Instead, she took away memories of sitting in the sunshine, watching the rabbits and jackdaws, and imagining the castle dreaming and contented in the company of the simple creatures. She recorded her pleasant visit together with her impression and thoughts in a simple letter. I can’t help thinking that there must have been many, many places that she visited that got her thinking just as deeply; and these would have appeared from time to time in her writing. This particular castle may have fed her imagination for many of the castles that appear in her books.

I’ve often wondered whether Enid had the Famous Five characters in mind before Kirrin Island was formed and she suddenly realised where George & Co belonged, or whether whether they developed simultaneously, or whether they came to her after she had the idea for Kirrin Island and Castle. For me, it always seems as though George and Timmy were important creations for Enid, and that they had to be written, and so they possibly existed in her imagination a long time before they appeared on paper... but that’s just my impression, there’s no way of knowing. I'm not explaining myself very well anyway!

Just a few personal thoughts, and I apologise for the sheer piece of island-building indulgence in the second paragraph. I couldn’t resist!
Sarah
Society Member

Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. Psalm 139
User avatar
Anita Bensoussane
Forum Administrator
Posts: 26772
Joined: 30 Jan 2005, 23:25
Favourite book/series: Adventure series, Six Cousins books, Six Bad Boys
Favourite character: Jack Trent, Fatty and Elizabeth Allen
Location: UK

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

No need to apologise, Spitfire - I enjoyed reading it!
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


Society Member
User avatar
Spitfire
Posts: 1055
Joined: 16 Jun 2010, 20:57
Favourite book/series: Most of the stand-alone stories
Favourite character: Snubby & Mr. Twiddle.

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by Spitfire »

Thanks! :D
Sarah
Society Member

Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. Psalm 139
Katharine
Posts: 12284
Joined: 25 Nov 2009, 15:50

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by Katharine »

I really enjoyed the piece about the island building. To me it conjured up the image of Enid as a cook, adding lots of ingredients and ending up with a mouth watering concoction for us all to enjoy.
Society Member
User avatar
Spitfire
Posts: 1055
Joined: 16 Jun 2010, 20:57
Favourite book/series: Most of the stand-alone stories
Favourite character: Snubby & Mr. Twiddle.

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by Spitfire »

That's what came to mind for me too, Katharine. :) Enid was a first-class chef, adding just the right amount of seasoning, cooking at just the right temperature for the right length of time. Like all true artists, she had an instinct for what she did. What she produced was never over-cooked or too heavy or too salty etc etc... She was a very talented wordsmith, and it's a real pity that her books have been treated so snobbishly (by schools for example) in the past few decades.

:)
Sarah
Society Member

Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. Psalm 139
User avatar
Julie2owlsdene
Posts: 15244
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 20:15
Favourite book/series: F.F. and Mystery Series - Five get into Trouble
Favourite character: Dick
Location: Cornwall

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by Julie2owlsdene »

Interesting to read this thread about Kirrin Island and the castle.

I think as suggested, that Enid saw the island she wanted to use in the Channel Islands, as she wrote and told Trevor Bolton, and the castle, well maybe she told Eileen Soper she wanted a ruined castle on the island and Eileen looked through her work of already drawn castles, or a book of castles, or photos and drew one similar to Corfe.

I think that Enid didn't write about just one place in her books, she gathered together all the sites she'd seen and put them into her imaginary Kirrin village, Peterswood, and other locations she used in many of her books. And it's the reader who uses their own imaginatiion as to where they want to place these imaginary places they read about. Such as for me, Peterswood isn't Bourne End, much of it is here in my own village, the only thing we are missing is the river and the level crossing, but I can imagine where I'd put that just as Enid did. :)

8)
Julian gave an exclamation and nudged George.
"See that? It's the black Bentley again. KMF 102!"

Society Member
User avatar
Anita Bensoussane
Forum Administrator
Posts: 26772
Joined: 30 Jan 2005, 23:25
Favourite book/series: Adventure series, Six Cousins books, Six Bad Boys
Favourite character: Jack Trent, Fatty and Elizabeth Allen
Location: UK

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Julie2owlsdene wrote:I think as suggested, that Enid saw the island she wanted to use in the Channel Islands, as she wrote and told Trevor Bolton, and the castle, well maybe she told Eileen Soper she wanted a ruined castle on the island and Eileen looked through her work of already drawn castles, or a book of castles, or photos and drew one similar to Corfe.
But which book has illustrations where the castle is similar to Corfe? The other day I looked through Eileen Soper's illustrations for Five on a Treasure Island and Five Have a Wonderful Time (because it was suggested that Faynights was also inspired by Corfe), but in those two stories the castles didn't look much like Corfe. Did Eileen Soper portray Kirrin Castle differently in different books?
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


Society Member
Katharine
Posts: 12284
Joined: 25 Nov 2009, 15:50

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by Katharine »

I think it was very sensible of Enid not to use real places for most of her books. I've never been to Corfe Castle and wasn't aware of it's existence when I was a child, so I didn't have to 'worry' about trying to picture a genuine place. In recent years I've seen pictures of the castle, and mis-read that it was how Kirrin was supposed to look. I've found this hard, as when I re-read FF books, Kirrin Castle doesn't look like Corfe in my mind. Now I see I don't have to worry too much, as it seems that there wasn't a real Kirrin, it was just inspired by real life locations.

I'm currently re-reading an Agatha Christie book which is based in London. Following a couple of trips there last year, I am now able to picture several of the locations mentioned. I've found this really helpful, as when I've read the book in the past, there are lots of famous landmarks/locations mentioned, but they have all been meaningless to me. Although Agatha Christie is an excellent writer, the only slight criticism is that if the reader is unfamiliar with London, then they wouldn't have a clue as the significance of mentioning a certain location.

Whereas with Enid Blyton, she tends to give more in depth description to her locations, as they are imaginary, so no one knows what they should look like.
Society Member
User avatar
Julie2owlsdene
Posts: 15244
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 20:15
Favourite book/series: F.F. and Mystery Series - Five get into Trouble
Favourite character: Dick
Location: Cornwall

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by Julie2owlsdene »

Anita Bensoussane wrote:
Julie2owlsdene wrote:I think as suggested, that Enid saw the island she wanted to use in the Channel Islands, as she wrote and told Trevor Bolton, and the castle, well maybe she told Eileen Soper she wanted a ruined castle on the island and Eileen looked through her work of already drawn castles, or a book of castles, or photos and drew one similar to Corfe.
But which book has illustrations where the castle is similar to Corfe?
I'd have to be able to speak to the dead, to answer that one, Anita! :lol: I would imagine being an illustrator that Eileen Soper had many many books which had pictures of castles in them, and had taken many photos that inspired her for her work as an illustrator and drew many rough sketches for her work too on her travels. I was not refering to an already illustrated book by Enid if that is what you were thinking I meant, Anita. ! :D

On my days out, I take many photos that would make a great drawing or painting, and do the odd sketch that I turn into something else when the inspiration pops into my head. :)

8)
Julian gave an exclamation and nudged George.
"See that? It's the black Bentley again. KMF 102!"

Society Member
User avatar
sixret
Posts: 4130
Joined: 16 Aug 2006, 14:25
Favourite book/series: Five Find-Outers,Mr.Twiddle,Barney R
Favourite character: Mr.Twiddle,Fatty,Saucepan,Snubby

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by sixret »

So in the nutshell, Kirrin Island and castle described in words are(or were?) Enid's imagination whilst* Kirrin Island castle illustrated by Eileen Soper are(or were?) Soper's inspiration (may or may not be based on Corfe). :D


*I have just visited World Of Blyton and learned new thing about the difference(or no diference at all) between whilst an while written by Fiona-Thanks Fiona ;)
I stand with justice and the truth. Palestine will be free from the river to the sea.

Learn the history. Do research.

The hypocrisy, double standard, prejudice and bigotry own by some people is so obvious.Shame on them!
User avatar
Moonraker
Posts: 22387
Joined: 31 Jan 2005, 19:15
Location: Wiltshire, England
Contact:

Re: Inspiration for Kirrin Bay, Island and Castle?

Post by Moonraker »

Anita Bensoussane wrote: But which book has illustrations where the castle is similar to Corfe? The other day I looked through Eileen Soper's illustrations for Five on a Treasure Island and Five Have a Wonderful Time (because it was suggested that Faynights was also inspired by Corfe), but in those two stories the castles didn't look much like Corfe. Did Eileen Soper portray Kirrin Castle differently in different books?
I think you're taking Julie's words too literally, Anita - unless I'm barking up the wrong tree (always possible)! I read Julie's post to mean that Soper might have drawn Kirrin and Faynights' Castles from sketches she might have made, pictures she might have seen or castles she had visited personally. Not that she had drawn in other books! Of course, we can only speculate about Soper's illustrative locations as with any ideas we might have. I agree with you where you say that neither Kirrin nor Faynights look much like Corfe.
Society Member
Post Reply