The name 'Kirrin'

[Comerscroft]

Sorry if this has been discussed many times, but I am still puzzled as to the surname 'Kirrin'.

In 'Five on a Treasure Island', George and her parents are specifically surnamed 'Kirrin', and the cottage, village, station, island, bay, castle and farm, all have the same name 'Kirrin' which suggests an old name going back years----and descended, as normally the case, through the male line.

However, it's also stated that the castle belonged to George's MOTHER, which suggests that Fanny's name must also have been 'Kirrin'.

Also, in 'Five go adventuring again', the old couple at Kirrin Farm who have been there for years, say that they knew George's mother when she was a baby, so Aunt Fanny had clearly lived in the area for years.

Likely?

I know there was a discrepancy in a later book 'Five get into a Fix' about the mother of Julian, Dick and Anne (now rectified) where she was 'Mrs Barnard' ---as married to the brother of Uncle Quentin, she should have been 'Mrs Kirrin'.

Does anyone have any ideas about Aunt Fanny and her name?

[Jen-Jen]

I always imagined that way back on Aunt Fanny's family tree there were Kirrin's but they were unrelated to Quentin Kirrin. Just a funny coincidence that she met a man with the surname Kirrin.

[Ming]

Perhaps it wasn't strange at all. Maybe Kirrin was a 'well-known' and 'big' surname, and they weren't related before, as you guess. My own surname is way too popular.

[Kitty]

I assumed they were quite close relatives who married, to be honest!

[Susie]

I assumed they were quite close relatives who married, to be honest!

You mean like a double cousin?

[Ming]

What's a double cousin?!

[Moonraker]

A twin

[Susie]

What's a double cousin?!

It's when brother and sister of one family, marry a brother and sister of another family their children are double cousins on BOTH sides.
On a side note my mum is one!

Example: Harry and Bernhilda Jones, both marry into the Smith family, their children are what is called a double cousins, as it's a cousin on both sides.

[Lenoir]

What about Sooty and Marybelle. Mrs. Lenoir was their mother, and Mr. Lenoir was Marybelle’s father, but Mr. Lenoir’s cousin was Sooty’s father. That makes Sooty and Marybelle half-sister and brother as they have the same mother, but they are related in some way via their fathers as well.

Who said Enid Blyton books were too simplistic?

[shavinda]

ghost trains that vanish in the middle of the night are scary .the five didnt belive it.there has to be a logical explanantion.but as they follow the tracks they realise they might be wrong ther is defenitly something spooky underground

[shavinda]

they have named krin because the island that george owned is kirin and that is a wonderful name

[dsr]

Cousins would be my guess. It wouldn't need to be double cousins - Quentin Kirren's father could be brother to Fanny Kirren's father. Or, in view of the fact that the property has passed through Fanny's family, maybe the common Kirren ancestor is more remote - great-grandfather or great-great-grandfather - but the Kirrens were the type of family that kept in touch with distant cousins. Or Quentin met Fanny at a family reunion.

My guess, for no reason that I can put my finger on, is that Fanny was relatively old when she married - 35 or so - though Quentin might be younger. But there might well be something in the books that knocks that theory into a cocked hat, so you're all welcome to shoot it down.

My mother could have had double cousins - her parents were Edwin P and Edith M. Edith's brother Tom M married Edwin's sister Annie P. So if Tom & Annie had had children, they would have been double first cousins to my mother.

[Petermax]

It is not unknown for a totally unrelated couple to share the same surname before marriage, it happened in my family a few years ago. Admittedly the surname in question held by one of my cousins was a very common one, certainly not as rare as Kirrin.

In the case of Quentin and Fanny Kirrin I would put it down to them both being born and bred in the Kirrin Bay area, families that had lived there for many generations would have taken a place name or occupation as a basis for a surname.

[Comerscroft]

[quote="dsr"]Cousins would be my guess. It wouldn't need to be double cousins - Quentin Kirren's father could be brother to Fanny Kirren's father. Or, in view of the fact that the property has passed through Fanny's family, maybe the common Kirren ancestor is more remote - great-grandfather or great-great-grandfather - but the Kirrens were the type of family that kept in touch with distant cousins. Or Quentin met Fanny at a family reunion.
quote]


That might explain why Julian's father (Quentin's brother) had 'to meet Fanny in town the other day' (Chapter one of 'Treasure Island').

Still, if the families all kept in touch with each other, it's hard to believe that the children had never met George before. Although I suppose that in the 1940s, a journey from London down to the West Country would have taken hours, and not something to be done very often.

[Pippa-Stef]

They could be cousins, removed or something.
Two Kirrin Brothers, married, two Kirrin sisters?

But that doesn't explain why Julian, Dick, and Anne's mother becomes Mrs Bernard in Five in a Fix unless Enid relised her Mistake and tried to modefy it before the end of the series?