The Landscape of Kirrin?

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Belly
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The Landscape of Kirrin?

Post by Belly »

Anyone thought about this at all?

How close was Kirrin Farm to Kirrin Cottage?

How many bedrooms did Kirrin Cottage have? Was it large? Was it a 19th Century cottage. Did the bedrooms have sea views, think so as per 'signalling' by torch to the Island. Could you see the Island only from the back of the house?

How close was Kirrin beach?

Where was Kirrin? Dorset or the West Country ie: Devon/Cornwall?

How much would Kirrin Cottage and Farm be worth today?

If in the West Country probably over a million just for the 'large' cottage and grounds plus a similar amount for the farm?

How large was Kirrin Farm? Wasn't there something that Fanny had sold it?

Were the Kirrins supposed to be wealthy? Really middle class but interesting to see how the demographics etc have shifted. They'd be very wealthy by today's standards.

Did Enid really have Poole in mind when she wrote about Kirrin and Brownsea Island as a model for Kirrin Island? I don't get that 'feel' although I think that was the case.

To me Kirrin Island is beautiful/magical and more like is it, St Michael's Mount (?) in Cornwall? With a house overlooking it.

Or a beautiful cottage overlooking the mewstone at Wembury, Devon - if anyone knows it there? With a very old church nearby perched on the cliffs..
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Re: The Landscape of Kirrin?

Post by Moonraker »

Belly wrote:Did Enid really have Poole in mind when she wrote about Kirrin and Brownsea Island as a model for Kirrin Island? I don't get that 'feel' although I think that was the case.

To me Kirrin Island is beautiful/magical and more like is it, St Michael's Mount (?) in Cornwall? With a house overlooking it.
How I agree, Belly. I've never felt that Kirrin was Corfe Castle. For a start Corfe's inland! Kirrin Castle was supposed to be modelled on Corfe Castle itself. Brownsea Island was meant to be the model for Whispering Island. To me, St Michael's Mount was more like Castaway. I always feel as if I am climbing up to Smuggler's Top when I'm on the Mount.

Poole, to me, is a large, pretty uninteresting place - quite unlike anything that Enid wrote about.

I guess that the pictures we see in our mind when we first read a book, stay with us. When we subsequently find out the real settings, we can't believe it!
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Belly
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Re: The Landscape of Kirrin?

Post by Belly »

moonraker wrote:
Belly wrote:Did Enid really have Poole in mind when she wrote about Kirrin and Brownsea Island as a model for Kirrin Island? I don't get that 'feel' although I think that was the case.

To me Kirrin Island is beautiful/magical and more like is it, St Michael's Mount (?) in Cornwall? With a house overlooking it.
How I agree, Belly. I've never felt that Kirrin was Corfe Castle. For a start Corfe's inland! Kirrin Castle was supposed to be modelled on Corfe Castle itself. Brownsea Island was meant to be the model for Whispering Island. To me, St Michael's Mount was more like Castaway. I always feel as if I am climbing up to Smuggler's Top when I'm on the Mount.

Poole, to me, is a large, pretty uninteresting place - quite unlike anything that Enid wrote about.

I guess that the pictures we see in our mind when we first read a book, stay with us. When we subsequently find out the real settings, we can't believe it!
I went on a 'pilgrimage' to Poole - thinking it was the 'setting' for Kirrin as a 9 year old - Dad had to take me there after years of badgering!

Was convinced I saw Enid Blyton in a tea shop there, not realising she had sadly died in 1968, but always was over imaginative :D !

I thought it quite uninspiring and too 'modern' for Kirrin.

Perhaps Enid had Corfe Castle in mind for Kirrin Island but set it in a different location in her mind?

Did Enid visit Cornwall/Devon much as well as Dorset?

Where is Kirrin supposed to be in the Five books, are there any towns mentioned/clues given?

I remember the Five go from Kirrin station on quite a few of their travels via train - It seemed to take ages to 'Go Down to the Sea' stopping at Polwilly Halt (?) or similar? Was that the distance from Dorset to Devon or similar?

I often wondered about the locations in the books, for example where was Faynights Castle? (open to the public but pretty much a rip off as mostly a ruin without a lot of history at least on the surface of things).
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The Landscape of Kirrin?

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Belly, when my daughter was reading the Famous Five books I had quite a discussion with her about Kirrin, and realised that her vision of it was quite different from mine. I told her that, when I stood in front of Kirrin Cottage (in my imagination), facing towards the front of the house, I saw the cottage standing on a stretch of grassy land which swept down to the beach to the left of the house. Kirrin Island, a small, rocky island, covered with gorse, and with the outline of the ruined castle standing out clearly against the sky, could be seen in the distance. If I went down to the beach and stood looking out to sea, I would see the island out towards my right. Well, it turned out that my daughter's Kirrin Cottage and Kirrin Island were in quite different places, of course. Perhaps that's one reason why film versions of a story rarely if ever live up to the book - everything seems to be in the "wrong" place!

Sometimes, it's only after I've read a book several times that it has suddenly dawned on me that I've been picturing a certain room in the book as having the same layout as a room I knew as a child - eg. a living-room in a house I lived in, or the kitchen of a friend's house. Anyone else relate to that?

Belly, you asked about whether the Kirrins were wealthy. At the beginning of the series we're told that Quentin, Fanny and George are not at all well-off. They may have a lovely cottage in a glorious location, but that house was handed down through the family - unlike most of the Kirrin land, which had to be sold. They're pretty hard up until George and her cousins find the gold ingots (Five On a Treasure Island.)

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Re: The Landscape of Kirrin

Post by Belly »

Anita Bensoussane wrote:Belly, when my daughter was reading the Famous Five books I had quite a discussion with her about Kirrin, and realised that her vision of it was quite different from mine. I told her that, when I stood in front of Kirrin Cottage (in my imagination), facing towards the front of the house, I saw the cottage standing on a stretch of grassy land which swept down to the beach to the left of the house. Kirrin Island, a small, rocky island, covered with gorse, and with the outline of the ruined castle standing out clearly against the sky, could be seen in the distance. If I went down to the beach and stood looking out to sea, I would see the island out towards my right. Well, it turned out that my daughter's Kirrin Cottage and Kirrin Island were in quite different places, of course. Perhaps that's one reason why film versions of a story rarely if ever live up to the book - everything seems to be in the "wrong" place!

Sometimes, it's only after I've read a book several times that it has suddenly dawned on me that I've been picturing a certain room in the book as having the same layout as a room I knew as a child - eg. a living-room in a house I lived in, or the kitchen of a friend's house. Anyone else relate to that?

Belly, you asked about whether the Kirrins were wealthy. At the beginning of the series we're told that Quentin, Fanny and George are not at all well-off. They may have a lovely cottage in a glorious location, but that house was handed down through the family - unlike most of the Kirrin land, which had to be sold. They're pretty hard up until George and her cousins find the gold ingots (Five On a Treasure Island.)

Anita

Anita, v interesting to read that my 'vision' is very similar to yours. I wonder what my daughter's vision will be when she is a bit older? I hope she is as much of a Blyton fan as I was as a child (and now).

I thought there was something about the house being handed down through the family and them being hard up. They could afford a cook/housekeeper though (grin)!

In real life they'd have had to sell Kirrin Cottage - I imagine it to be a lot larger than a small fisherman's type Cottage, by the way. Probably around 5 bedroom with a large farmhouse kitchen and rambling garden.

That's the beauty of Enid's writing. She made everthing seem so tangible. No other writer has been able to do that for me in quite the same way, even the supposed 'adult' greats.
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The Landscape of Kirrin?

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Hi Belly,

"Tangible" - yes, I agree. Blyton doesn't go in for long descriptions, yet she manages to hit on just the right word or phrase for something, eg. the cries of the seabirds in The Sea of Adventure: "...some shrill, some guttural, some mournful and forlorn." Reading that, I'm right there amid the Scottish islands, hearing the calls of the birds.

Kirrin Cottage must be larger than a typical cottage, as you said, since at least four bedrooms are mentioned - one for Aunt Fanny and Uncle Quentin, one for the two boys, one for the two girls (and Timmy!) and one for Joan/Joanna. And Uncle Quentin has a study downstairs. I still imagine it to have the typical features of a cottage, though - small windows, low ceilings, a cottage garden...

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Re: The Landscape of Kirrin

Post by Moonraker »

Anita Bensoussane wrote:
Sometimes, it's only after I've read a book several times that it has suddenly dawned on me that I've been picturing a certain room in the book as having the same layout as a room I knew as a child - eg. a living-room in a house I lived in, or the kitchen of a friend's house. Anyone else relate to that?

Anita
Anita, I totally relate to that. The inside of Kirrin Cottage is the bungalow in which I spent the first six years of my life. (Not at the sea, so a location can be made up from several different settings). Lady Candling's garden in "..Disappearing Cat" was the house and garden opposite. (Same location, but Peterswood, not Kirrin!!).

I quite agree that this is one reason why a tv/film adaptation never lives up to the image in one's own mind. The same thing goes for the characters, althought the HTV version of The Famous Five got the characters IMO spot on.

Incidently, my picture of Kirrin Cottage (WHY was it called Kirrin HOUSE in the 1950s film? Aaaarrrggh) and grounds is almost identical to yours, Anita. Check out Eileen Soper's illustration of Kirrin Cottage at the beginning of Chapter Three in "Five go to Smuggler's Top" (Hodder & Stoughton). What an atmospheric picture. Look at the elderly gent with the little boy! Turn around 180 degrees and see the bay with the island and castle
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The Landscape of Kirrin?

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Hi Moonraker,

I just checked out that picture (luckily my Knight paperback edition of Smuggler's Top is illustrated by Eileen Soper - some of the other titles are illustrated by Betty Maxey and, although I find many of her illustrations quite attractive, they lack the period feel of Soper's.) Kirrin Cottage is spot-on in Soper's picture - and yes, I'd never noticed the elderly gent and little boy before.

Another memorable picture is the one in Chapter 4 of the car driving towards Castaway Hill, which looks like an island floating on a cloud of mist, just as Blyton describes: "The hill seemed to swim in the mists, and to have no roots in the earth."

Perhaps Kirrin Cottage had to be called Kirrin House in the 1950s film because the building they used in the film was big, and looked nothing like a cottage!

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Re: The Landscape of Kirrin

Post by Moonraker »

Anita Bensoussane wrote:Perhaps Kirrin Cottage had to be called Kirrin House in the 1950s film because the building they used in the film was big, and looked nothing like a cottage!

Anita
Hi Anita

Yeah, great illustration of Castaway.

Regards Kirrin House, if it was too big to be called Kirrin Cottage, then they chose the wrong location!!

Regards
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Re: The Landscape of Kirrin

Post by Belly »

moonraker wrote:
Anita Bensoussane wrote:Perhaps Kirrin Cottage had to be called Kirrin House in the 1950s film because the building they used in the film was big, and looked nothing like a cottage!

Anita
Hi Anita

Yeah, great illustration of Castaway.

Regards Kirrin House, if it was too big to be called Kirrin Cottage, then they chose the wrong location!!

Regards
Nigel
I've got friends who live in a house which is vast called 'York Cottage' so no excuse for changing name just because bigger than the average cottage. Kirrin Cottage had at least 4 bedrooms anyway.

I couldn't believe Timmy was black and white in the 70s TV series! Or Kiki the parrot not scarlet and grey in the televised Adventure series I've watched.
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Re: The Landscape of Kirrin?

Post by booklover »

Belly wrote:Anyone thought about this at all?

Where was Kirrin? Dorset or the West Country ie: Devon/Cornwall?

...

Did Enid really have Poole in mind when she wrote about Kirrin and Brownsea Island as a model for Kirrin Island? I don't get that 'feel' although I think that was the case.

To me Kirrin Island is beautiful/magical and more like is it, St Michael's Mount (?) in Cornwall? With a house overlooking it.

Or a beautiful cottage overlooking the mewstone at Wembury, Devon - if anyone knows it there? With a very old church nearby perched on the cliffs..
Just to add another angle on this discussion, Norman Wright in his book on the Famous Five writes as follows:

"The real answer to the Kirrin Island question was, however, finally cleared up by Trevor Bolton in an article for the Enid Blyton Society Journal.

Trevor corresponded with Enid from 1948 until the early 1960s and in his letters he often asked questions about her books and stories. In one letter he asked if Kirrin was based on a real place and in her reply she said: "Yes, Kirrin was based on an actual village, bay and island - but in the Channel Isles, not England." Enid Blyton visited Jersey during her honeymoon in 1924 and, if not based on Jersey itself, it is likely that Kirrin Island was inspired by one of the many small isles she visited nearby."

The plot thickens!
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Re: The Landscape of Kirrin?

Post by Belly »

booklover wrote:
Belly wrote:Anyone thought about this at all?

Where was Kirrin? Dorset or the West Country ie: Devon/Cornwall?

...

Did Enid really have Poole in mind when she wrote about Kirrin and Brownsea Island as a model for Kirrin Island? I don't get that 'feel' although I think that was the case.

To me Kirrin Island is beautiful/magical and more like is it, St Michael's Mount (?) in Cornwall? With a house overlooking it.

Or a beautiful cottage overlooking the mewstone at Wembury, Devon - if anyone knows it there? With a very old church nearby perched on the cliffs..
Just to add another angle on this discussion, Norman Wright in his book on the Famous Five writes as follows:

"The real answer to the Kirrin Island question was, however, finally cleared up by Trevor Bolton in an article for the Enid Blyton Society Journal.

Trevor corresponded with Enid from 1948 until the early 1960s and in his letters he often asked questions about her books and stories. In one letter he asked if Kirrin was based on a real place and in her reply she said: "Yes, Kirrin was based on an actual village, bay and island - but in the Channel Isles, not England." Enid Blyton visited Jersey during her honeymoon in 1924 and, if not based on Jersey itself, it is likely that Kirrin Island was inspired by one of the many small isles she visited nearby."

The plot thickens!
That's fascinating! St Peter Port in Guernsey has a 'Kirrin' type feel. There is an island off Guernsey owned by the Barclay brothers which is small, secret and private. It has a castle on it and secret passages which apparently they had customised! Perhpas they know something we don't :shock: :D
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kirrin

Post by Kirrin »

When I read enids books I sometimes imagine a place again that I have first imagines in f5 like the circus ground in five go off in a caravan I re-used it when I read rilloby fair mystery aulthough it wasnt the same it was very similar.
I imaginme kirrin cottage to be on a lane set back and its rear and side face the sea. I t has a large front rear and side gardens and crazy paving path.
It is on the edge of kirrin village.
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an idea

Post by Neasa »

in 'everything you ever needed to know about the famous five', by Norman Wright, there is a lovely map drawn of Kirrin( can't remember name of artist!). Wouldn't it be great if there was a bookfull of soper illustrations, others from later versions and other artists' illustrations like the one in everything you.. and quotes from books giving descriptions about the places like Kirrin, Castaway, Billycock farm etc.? It would be great if ther was a layout of Smugglers Top in it.....(of course mapping the catacombs would be tricky!) I'd buy it!
It could be done with the Adventure Series too, with Craggy Tops and others. :D :D
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Landscape of Kirrin

Post by gareth jones »

Kirrin cottage must be a little way from Kirrin village because Aunt Fanny picks the children up in a pony and trap from the station when they come home. I imagine Kirrin cottage as in Eileen Soper illustration in Smugglers Top. The front of the cottage overlooks the sea where the boys bedroom is and the girls bedroom at the rear overlooks the moors. Joan the cook has a bedroom in the attic,not sure where Uncle Quentin and Aunt Fanny's bedroom is. I imagine it to have a large garden to the front and the rear growing all sorts of fruit and vegetables. It can't be to far from the sea because when they are on the beach they can hear the dinner gong. Kirrin Farm is also within walking distance as is the village. there is also a quarry on the moors where the children find a secret passage that goes all the way to Kirrin Island in Five on Kirrin Island again. But i suppose we all have our own image of Kirrin as we saw it when we first read the books.
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