The Enid Blyton Society

So she said "spade" when she saw the picture but corrected it to "shovel" after seeing that written?

Yes. Funny that that should come up just as we were discussing the topic! The character has never received a spade (or shovel!) as a present before!

Anita

You are spot-on, Ming. Black people were sometimes referred to as Spades, as the King of Spades was black.

Thankfully, this term is hardly - if ever - used to-day.

We do still sometimes say, "Call a spade a spade", which simply means to speak honestly and frankly.

OK, I know spade has a relatively little known and rarely used slang meaning, but it is just that - slang. The word has a true and legitimate meaning and use,the sort of children who read Enid Blyton would not be aware of it's slang meaning, if adults want to snigger at that, why should we change the texts of old books to suit them?

Kate.

[Nigel:] Black people were sometimes referred to as Spades, as the King of Spades was black.

I've never even heard of that! It doesn't make sense anyway, since Clubs are black as well as Spades!

It's surprising that the word "snigger," just used by Kate Mary, hasn't yet been banned by the PC brigade! I recall reading a story in the newspaper about a politician (or someone in some position of authority - I can't quite remember) being reprimanded for using the word "niggardly" in a meeting!

Anita

funny how the use of the word 'spade' to describe a black person has fallen out of use without even the hint of it being banned as non-PC, and yet the word 'nigger' is still used today as a derogatory term (by some people)despite it being bandied about as a non PC word for decades. Interesting that!

That sort of proves that the connotations of a word are in the mind of the speaker (or receiver) and are open to interpretation.

How many people still say the word 'spade' without causing offence?!

I never knew the other meaning of the term "spade". I must confess to not even being sure what a "honky" is (as brought up by Tiq in his post).

It is true that sometimes deliberately censoring or banning something can increase its usage amongst certain groups and make it more appealing to some who deliberately want to offend. I would go so far as saying that it can also make certain words more offensive.

On an aside, we used to use the rhyme "eeny meeny miny mo" as children in the 1980s, but my mum told us to replace "nigger" with "tigger" (in reference to Winnie the Pooh's friend perhaps?) as it was nicer

I must admit that when we said the rhyme eeny meeny miny mo as children we didnt even know what a 'nigger' was. I can't even remember questioning it, or being puzzled as to what it was. I think I thought it was some made-up creature, like an imp or goblin!

Mollybob wrote:I never knew the other meaning of the term "spade". I must confess to not even being sure what a "honky" is (as brought up by Tiq in his post).

A "honky" is quite simply a white person; essentially, it is to white people what "nigger" is to black people! In other words, pretty derogatory.

I first learned the word "honky" on the American sitcom, The Jeffersons, which was a spinoff of All in the Family. The main character, George Jefferson (played by Sherman Hemsley) often referred to white people (and especially his white neighbour, Mr Bennett) as "honkys". As you might guess, racism was a theme quite regularly explored on the show, but it was actually pretty funny and clever.

It was a book and not a TV programme where I first encounted the word "nigger". That book was The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, by Mark Twain. Strangely enough, it never occurred to me at any stage of reading that book that "nigger" was an offensive term. I didn't even realise it meant a black person. I thought that perhaps it was some kind of slang word for "slave" (because Jim was referred to as "Miz Watson's nigger", and much of the story had to do with him running away from slavery). It wasn't until I went to live in the States at the age of 10 (it was there that I saw The Jeffersons; I'm not sure if that show ever screened in New Zealand) that I learned just how offensive "nigger" actually was and what it really meant. Of course, its use in Huckleberry Finn has resulted in that book being banned from libraries sometimes, but even so, I don't think the book has ever been edited. (It would totally ruin the historical context if it was.)

Although the use of such words in older books may make us cringe, I think they have to be taken in the context they were written in. And with so many of Enid Blyton's books being interfered with nowadays, the older, unmolested books are becoming increasingly important, and I think every one of them should be preserved and not thrown away, no matter how much "offensive" language they might contain. Anyway, in a funny sort of way, they add a bit of extra colour, as it were!

Language does evolve over time though and words take on new meanings. Take the word pi--, for instance. Regarded as vulgar nowadays, it actually appears several times in the King James Bible! Obviously, in the 17th Century, it wasn't regarded as a swear word like it is now, and must have been more of a neutral term. Similarly, many older books use "gay" rather liberally, and I can remember a reference to "gay couples" in an L.M. Montgomery book! She was, of course, referring to happy heterosexual couples, but reading it through modern eyes, I couldn't help but chuckle! Snigger, even! However, "politically incorrect" older books perhaps serve another important function in showing us how language has changed and how words that are offensive now were once quite innocuous and even meant entirely different things. So as I say, such books need to be preserved, not destroyed or discarded. They have too much historical importance, both culturally and linguistically.

Robert Houghton wrote:How many people still say the word 'spade' without causing offence?!

I would imagine Alan Titchmarsh probably gets away with it.

Moonraker wrote:

Robert Houghton wrote:How many people still say the word 'spade' without causing offence?!

When I take my cousins to the sea side, I'll have to tell them that they can take with their buckets and shovels ( sounds dreadful) and not spades. Actually I don't think I will tell them at all.

I took my children to the beach today, funnily enough. We had a picnic lunch and a dip in the sea, but the water was freezing so we soon came out. The sea certainly wasn't "as blue as cornflowers" - more like "as steely grey as wire wool!" Anyway, after that a number of the children, including my two, got together to dig an enormous hole and fill it with seawater. The word "spade" must have been uttered by all of them dozens of times, referring to the plasic blades with handles that they were using for digging in the sand. Despite using this "questionable" word, which is so deplorable that it has been excised from the Faraway Tree books, the children, who were of several different races, worked well together and felt a great sense of achievement when their hard work and co-operation resulted in a deep, wide pool which held about four children at once.

We might even have a game of cards this evening!

Anita

That sounds like real fun, Anita!

Nice to know that the word "spade" was used correctly by them!

Wish you could have been there, Ming. You'd have had fun in spades!

Anita

I just posted a reply and little while ago, and it seems that it didn't take. Now if it should appear, I apologize for repeating myself. I am not a techie. I will attempt to re-write my entry...it was long the first time. I will try to make it shorter this time.
Tiq, it appears that you paint quite an unpleasant picture of me. I guess this can happen when people do not meet face to face. You only have my own words to go on, so fair's fair. I am really much more easy going than you portray.
I would like to be clear. I do not think Enid Blyton is a racist. I think The Three Golliwogs has an interesting place in history. I do think the name should have been changed, and I say this only from an American perspective (certainly not all Americans) and because it is a book for young children. The word does not seem to bother forum members as much, so it could be a cultural thing.
Let me give you a little background about where I live. I don't know if our differences on this are cultural or not, but I will give it a go. I live in a suburb of a large, urban city...a struggling city right now. This area has a large African American population. We just recognized the anniversary of the race riots of the 60's. I was just a small child at the time of the riots, but the memories of my parents, friends, colleagues are still raw. This area played a key role in the Underground Railroad during slavery times. I drive by schools and roads named after Rosa Parks, Rev.Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X. African American culture and society is very much a part of my life. I will not speak on behalf of all Americans, but around here the word in question is not to be used by white people.

You have all given me much food for thought. Intellectually, I agree with much of what you have to say. Functionally, I am not so sure. I would like my African American friends and colleagues to come into my home and browse my bookshelves and not feel offended. I know my friends are not offended by Huck Finn, The Known World and other titles in my bookshelf, as we have had this discussion. They recognize the historical perspective of Huck Finn and other titles. I don't know how they would feel about the golliwogs book. I will ask. I think they would question it at first, but understand it's place in time and context. Would my children's friends understand? No. They are too young and don't yet have an understanding of history to put it in perspective. They will.

As far as banning other words. I don't really sit around thinking about it. This one just jumped out at me. I just went to the Holocaust Museum recently. I have many Jewish friends. The word holocaust does not seem to offend. Now if a derogatory word for Jewish people was in a book for young children, I would look at the reason for it and question it. Spade is not a word I hear much. I'm not much of a gardener so I just use the word shovel. I guess it's all about how the word is used.
I plead ignorance on my knowledge of golliwogs. I really don't know much about them except that they are dolls. I remember a conversation at work once when I brought up the word golliwog ...nobody knew what I was talking about.
Tiq, I agree that a book deserves a better life than just sitting wrapped up on my bookshelf. PM me with your address and it is yours. I will be out of town for a few days, so my response might be a bit late.
This was longer than planned. My apologies.
And another thing...(sorry, sorry) The old saying, "Sticks and stones..." is garbage. Verbal abuse is just as harmful as physical abuse, if not more so in some cases.