Find-Outers Readathon
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I wonder how much feedback Enid got from her readers? Could it be that she always planned to have Larry as the head of the Find-Outers (being the eldest) throughout the series, but positive feedback about Fatty encouraged her to give him a much more starring role later on? This seems quite likely to me!
Also, I notice that many people here are reading the books through twenty-first century eyes. Whenever I read EB I always manage to get into the mindset of the period in which it was written. For this reason, I never feel shocked or distressed when I read about thrashings, name calling etc. Life was different, then. I find the books much more rewarding, reading them that way!
Also, I notice that many people here are reading the books through twenty-first century eyes. Whenever I read EB I always manage to get into the mindset of the period in which it was written. For this reason, I never feel shocked or distressed when I read about thrashings, name calling etc. Life was different, then. I find the books much more rewarding, reading them that way!
- Anita Bensoussane
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Yes, I'd agree with that. Perhaps more than any of the other series, the Find-Outers series paints a vivid picture of 1940s-50s British village life.[Arky72:] ...now they are a fascinating social history of the UK.
Glad to hear it. I'll look out for that! I'm halfway through Hidden House at the moment and I'm enjoying it enormously.[Viking Star:] Daisy continues to have good ideas from time to time during the series (Anita )
Anita
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"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.
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- Lucky Star
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One of Daisy's strongest showings is in The Mystery of the Missing Man. She contributes quite a few idea's and says a lot more than usual. In some books she barely gets a word in. I wonder if the whole concept of the Find outers did'nt change in Enid's mind as she became more and more fond of Fatty while writing. Certainly in some of the books they could just as easily have been the Three Find Outers and dog.
- booklover
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Good observation - Fatty, Bets and ... ? (really it could be any of the other three.) So it's not the quantity of children in the story that counts, but their distinctive personalities.lucky Star wrote:Certainly in some of the books they could just as easily have been the Three Find Outers and dog.
Some thoughts on Hidden House. Introducing Ern Goon is a masterstroke - perhaps Enid was finding something lacking in Larry, Daisy and Pip. Anyway, just as Bets is Watson to Fatty's Holmes (thanks David Cook in Journal No. 32 for that one), so Ern plays the straight man for Fatty's developing comedy routine.
As for the story, Hidden House starts off as a mischievous tale involving planting false clues and then morphs into a sort of surreal Famous Five-type adventure. The adventure itself reminded me of Five Get Into Trouble and The Rockingdown Mystery. I just checked my bibliography and Hidden House was published in 1948 and the other two books were published in 1949, so perhaps Enid drew from Hidden House in writing the other stories. I love the humour in Hidden House - and the adventure was exciting - but overall I prefer the stories in the series that are pure "mysteries".
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Moonraker:
I think Fatty is such an independent person that his parents lack of being there doesn't worry him a bit - rather he prefers it. (He has the advantage of having plenty of money and the ability to sneak out without anyone noticing - although I personally would much rather caring parents.) Even though he is only 14 and at that age should have parents who are more attentive, he manages quite well on his own, and seems older than he really is.
As for Mrs T. not saying goodnight - that's sad.
However, I can't help liking Mrs T. Most of the time she is on Fatty's side when Goon complains and like Fatty she doesn't think much of Goon.
And she puts up with his antics and disguises, and does go down to the train station to greet him when he comes home for the holidays. She does care for Fatty, but probably feels Fatty doesn't need to be tucked in and fussed over.
Lucky Snubby from the Barney books, who loves all the attention he can get, doesn't have Fatty's parents for his own!
Chapter 2 in Hidden House also mentions that Fatty's parents "rarely bothered about him.""The children all felt excited as they went up to bed that night. At least, Fatty didn't go to bed, though Larry did. But then Larry's mother usually came to tuck him up and say good-night, and Fatty's didn't. "
Poor Fatty. This seems pretty uncaring of Mrs T not to see that Fatty was okay.
I think Fatty is such an independent person that his parents lack of being there doesn't worry him a bit - rather he prefers it. (He has the advantage of having plenty of money and the ability to sneak out without anyone noticing - although I personally would much rather caring parents.) Even though he is only 14 and at that age should have parents who are more attentive, he manages quite well on his own, and seems older than he really is.
As for Mrs T. not saying goodnight - that's sad.
However, I can't help liking Mrs T. Most of the time she is on Fatty's side when Goon complains and like Fatty she doesn't think much of Goon.
And she puts up with his antics and disguises, and does go down to the train station to greet him when he comes home for the holidays. She does care for Fatty, but probably feels Fatty doesn't need to be tucked in and fussed over.
Lucky Snubby from the Barney books, who loves all the attention he can get, doesn't have Fatty's parents for his own!
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Yes poor Ern .. he got into a lot of trouble for Fatty's false pome . Though he DID get to spend the rest of his life thinking that he'd written one brilliant pome for once so I guess he considered it worth it
Good observation about HH being more like an adventure than a mystery .. I had not considered that but you're right.
Good observation about HH being more like an adventure than a mystery .. I had not considered that but you're right.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Time to die.
EF
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Time to die.
EF
- Kitty
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I love Mrs Trotteville - she can be very droll and sophisticated. I quite like Mr Trotteville too, and certainly, I think the only way to deal with a prodigy like Fatty would be to treat him as a mini-adult!
Just starting HH. Pleased to see Mrs Trotteville sticking up for Ern - "He might be very nice". Sometimes the FFO parents get a hard time for supposed (and real) snobbery!
Just starting HH. Pleased to see Mrs Trotteville sticking up for Ern - "He might be very nice". Sometimes the FFO parents get a hard time for supposed (and real) snobbery!
- booklover
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Kitty, please don't read below! ****SPOILERS***
In response to Moose's comments, I agree Ern suffers for his friendship with Fatty. In the original story he gets CANED by Goon for Fatty's poem - but in recent editions, this has been deleted. I prefer the original - corporal punishment was prevalent when the book was written, and the scene also says a lot about Goon's primitive thinking.
Ming mentioned the laying of false clues by the children. Yes, this seems to happen a lot - not sure how many different books though. In this story, the reason seems to be that Mr Hilton has forbidden Pip and Bets from investigating any mysteries, so they get up to mischief such as laying false clues and flashing lights. But this was all for Ern, not Goon, wasn't it? - so I suppose that's OK???
I also like the way Pip showed some independent thought by participating in the search for Ern rather than simply obeying his father's direction. A difficult decision for a young teenager - but I think he made the right choice. Again an illustration of Blyton's skilful writing.
In response to Moose's comments, I agree Ern suffers for his friendship with Fatty. In the original story he gets CANED by Goon for Fatty's poem - but in recent editions, this has been deleted. I prefer the original - corporal punishment was prevalent when the book was written, and the scene also says a lot about Goon's primitive thinking.
Ming mentioned the laying of false clues by the children. Yes, this seems to happen a lot - not sure how many different books though. In this story, the reason seems to be that Mr Hilton has forbidden Pip and Bets from investigating any mysteries, so they get up to mischief such as laying false clues and flashing lights. But this was all for Ern, not Goon, wasn't it? - so I suppose that's OK???
I also like the way Pip showed some independent thought by participating in the search for Ern rather than simply obeying his father's direction. A difficult decision for a young teenager - but I think he made the right choice. Again an illustration of Blyton's skilful writing.
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So what happens instead of Ern being caned in modern editions .. is it just totally blanked or is there something else put in its place? (perhaps him being grounded or something).
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Time to die.
EF
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Time to die.
EF
The other thing to remember about how the children were treated by their parents is that in the 1940's and 50's, children left school earlier than they do nowadays, and would have gone to work, so have been seen as an adult sooner. I realise that it was a bit different for upper class families, which the Find Outer's must have been (or wouldn't have been away at school) but I still think that at 14, Fatty would have been seen as quite grown up.
Procrastinate now, don't put it off.
Mystery of the Hidden House
It is quite a while since I last read Hidden House.
The first thing I noticed on settling down with my first edition Methuen, was the illustration opposite the title page. It features a black car, left-hand drive, on the wrong side of the road! I guess the image was printed back-to-front; although J Abbey's signature is the right way round.
Enid is again promoting the high morals that her main characters employ. On P41, Fatty remonstrates with Ern (after he stole a notebook from Uncle Theo) as follows: "You can think us high-and-mighty if you like, but we think you're very low-down to take something out of your uncle's drawer without asking him."
Another lesson to us 10 year olds on how we should behave!
An interesting perception on how girls were treated in the 40s/50s is given on P45. Fatty tells the others he is going to Christmas Hill to flash some lights. "The girls can't come out these cold nights," went on Fatty, "We'll have to find something else for them to do." Why was it that girls were considered so weak and prone to illness from the elements then?
One of the highlights of this book is Fatty's disguise of the old woman in a red shawl at Goon's door. One of the strengths (and there are many) of this series is Fatty's extraordinary gift of disguising himself.
I also love the old-fashioned terms used (of course, they weren't old-fashioned when written!) "I'll give you a ring"; "He rang off"; terms we don't use so much, if at all, now. How much nicer "I'll give you a ring" sounds than "I'll call you" or "I'll give you a bell!"
We also have one of Enid's relatively few mentions of the War. (P177) "Must have been used in the war for something very hush-hush," [Fatty}
I enjoyed this book more than I thought I would. I seem to remember getting a bit annoyed with the "false" mystery and all the clues laid; but this time round I found it highly entertaining.
The dark side of this novel was Goon's treatment of Ern. We have discussed this in the past, so I won't labour the point. It is still better to keep in the story, rather than edit it out though.
[Hurries to bookcase, and takes out Strange Bundle]
The first thing I noticed on settling down with my first edition Methuen, was the illustration opposite the title page. It features a black car, left-hand drive, on the wrong side of the road! I guess the image was printed back-to-front; although J Abbey's signature is the right way round.
Enid is again promoting the high morals that her main characters employ. On P41, Fatty remonstrates with Ern (after he stole a notebook from Uncle Theo) as follows: "You can think us high-and-mighty if you like, but we think you're very low-down to take something out of your uncle's drawer without asking him."
Another lesson to us 10 year olds on how we should behave!
An interesting perception on how girls were treated in the 40s/50s is given on P45. Fatty tells the others he is going to Christmas Hill to flash some lights. "The girls can't come out these cold nights," went on Fatty, "We'll have to find something else for them to do." Why was it that girls were considered so weak and prone to illness from the elements then?
One of the highlights of this book is Fatty's disguise of the old woman in a red shawl at Goon's door. One of the strengths (and there are many) of this series is Fatty's extraordinary gift of disguising himself.
I also love the old-fashioned terms used (of course, they weren't old-fashioned when written!) "I'll give you a ring"; "He rang off"; terms we don't use so much, if at all, now. How much nicer "I'll give you a ring" sounds than "I'll call you" or "I'll give you a bell!"
We also have one of Enid's relatively few mentions of the War. (P177) "Must have been used in the war for something very hush-hush," [Fatty}
I enjoyed this book more than I thought I would. I seem to remember getting a bit annoyed with the "false" mystery and all the clues laid; but this time round I found it highly entertaining.
The dark side of this novel was Goon's treatment of Ern. We have discussed this in the past, so I won't labour the point. It is still better to keep in the story, rather than edit it out though.
[Hurries to bookcase, and takes out Strange Bundle]
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