Famous Five 90s Series
- Courtenay
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Re: Famous Five 90s Series
That's an interesting possibility, IceMaiden — not one I've ever thought of! I agree, some of them do look the part. Mind you, poodle crossbreeds have hair that doesn't shed but keeps on growing constantly and needs clipping regularly (like a purebred poodle), which I can't imagine would have been very practical for the "real" Timmy!
I remember Chrissie once suggesting that Timmy could be a Podengo Grande — some of the wire-haired ones bear quite a resemblance to Eileen Soper's version. However, they're classed as a definite breed, not a cross-breed or mongrel. On the other hand, the Podengo does have pricked ears, which we're told Timmy did ("his ears were too pricked") — although Soper always draws him with quite floppy ears.
It always leaves me wondering exactly what the original "Timmy" (the real-life dog that inspired Enid) really looked like. Enid did have some talent at drawing (as we've seen from her occasional sketches in the Teacher's World letters) — I wish she'd given Soper a sketch to work from! But I suppose she trusted the illustrator to add her own imagination to the description in the book, and it certainly worked.
I remember Chrissie once suggesting that Timmy could be a Podengo Grande — some of the wire-haired ones bear quite a resemblance to Eileen Soper's version. However, they're classed as a definite breed, not a cross-breed or mongrel. On the other hand, the Podengo does have pricked ears, which we're told Timmy did ("his ears were too pricked") — although Soper always draws him with quite floppy ears.
It always leaves me wondering exactly what the original "Timmy" (the real-life dog that inspired Enid) really looked like. Enid did have some talent at drawing (as we've seen from her occasional sketches in the Teacher's World letters) — I wish she'd given Soper a sketch to work from! But I suppose she trusted the illustrator to add her own imagination to the description in the book, and it certainly worked.
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It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
- IceMaiden
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Re: Famous Five 90s Series
If you get a labradoodle that has more of the Labrador coat, there is a good chance it won't need clipping like a more poodle coated one would. They vary wildly from dense and curly to fine and fairly straight, to just looking like a slightly rougher coated labrador so some have easier coat maintenance than others . They can also be huge, an angry one could easily look quite intimidating and terrifying.
Prick eared in a dog can mean fully up like an Alsatian or tipped at the ends like a collie, so Eileen Soper could have drawn him with either and it would be right for the description. In the drawings she did do, I don't think fully erect ears would look right, though that may be down to being used to them drawn as they are.
Whilst the Podengo Grande certainly looks the part, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disappoint you. It's nigh on impossible for Timmy to be one - because they were only introduced into Britain for the first time in 2002. Not only that, but they are so rare and few here it's only the small version of the Podengo that is registered, so I very much doubt this would have been the dog Timmy was based on!
Admittedly, there was no such thing as a labradoodle in Timmy's day either, but there were Labradors and poodles and up until the past few years a cross between them would have been a simple mongrel. Of course, the dog Tim was based on could have been a complete mix, impossible to tell what of so not really resembling any particular breed. I wish Enid had drawn a picture of him herself, I'd love to see the dog that inspired her for Timmy, and see if there was any breed in him that she perhaps didn't recognise or didn't have enough knowledge on breeds to do so.
Prick eared in a dog can mean fully up like an Alsatian or tipped at the ends like a collie, so Eileen Soper could have drawn him with either and it would be right for the description. In the drawings she did do, I don't think fully erect ears would look right, though that may be down to being used to them drawn as they are.
Whilst the Podengo Grande certainly looks the part, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disappoint you. It's nigh on impossible for Timmy to be one - because they were only introduced into Britain for the first time in 2002. Not only that, but they are so rare and few here it's only the small version of the Podengo that is registered, so I very much doubt this would have been the dog Timmy was based on!
Admittedly, there was no such thing as a labradoodle in Timmy's day either, but there were Labradors and poodles and up until the past few years a cross between them would have been a simple mongrel. Of course, the dog Tim was based on could have been a complete mix, impossible to tell what of so not really resembling any particular breed. I wish Enid had drawn a picture of him herself, I'd love to see the dog that inspired her for Timmy, and see if there was any breed in him that she perhaps didn't recognise or didn't have enough knowledge on breeds to do so.
- Courtenay
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Re: Famous Five 90s Series
I'm not disappointed, don't worry — I didn't say I believed he was one, just that another forum member had suggested the possibility once before. As I said, the Podengo is a definite breed, not a mongrel, so he couldn't have been one even if they had been known in Britain at the time. But you're right, the date of introduction certainly rules that out.IceMaiden wrote: Whilst the Podengo Grande certainly looks the part, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disappoint you. It's nigh on impossible for Timmy to be one - because they were only introduced into Britain for the first time in 2002. Not only that, but they are so rare and few here it's only the small version of the Podengo that is registered, so I very much doubt this would have been the dog Timmy was based on!
I didn't know labradoodles could have a more Labrador-like coat — that's interesting. They've always been marketed in Australia (where they're quite common) as low-allergenic, so I assumed the poodle coat was always dominant. We had a cavoodle (Cavalier King Charles spaniel x poodle) for many years and her coat was exactly like a poodle's, not shedding and needing to be clipped regularly.
Anyway, I guess we'll never know for sure!
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It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
- Daisy
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Re: Famous Five 90s Series
I wonder if the dog which inspired Enid was a collie type but that it was its disposition rather than looks which she was referring to when she made that remark. Making Timmy a mongrel (and she uses the word when she is first describing him) did at least prevent a stampede for any particular breed. Remember the Dulux dog and how that breed became popular for a while? Likewise the Andrex puppy? Making Timmy a mixture also gave the illustrator more scope I suppose.
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- Chrissie777
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Re: Famous Five 90s Series
For me it's still a Podengo Grande, even though he doesn't have the wide mouth that Timmy has.Courtenay wrote:I remember Chrissie once suggesting that Timmy could be a Podengo Grande — some of the wire-haired ones bear quite a resemblance to Eileen Soper's version. However, they're classed as a definite breed, not a cross-breed or mongrel. On the other hand, the Podengo does have pricked ears, which we're told Timmy did ("his ears were too pricked") — although Soper always draws him with quite floppy ears.
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- Anita Bensoussane
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Re: Famous Five 90s Series
In my imagination, Timmy looks something like a mixture of these two brown mongrel dogs (though the first one is on the small side):
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http://i.imgur.com/TzyqbD4.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.warrenphotographic.co.uk/pho ... ground.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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- Chrissie777
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Re: Famous Five 90s Series
According to Eileen A. Soper his fur is much fluffier.Anita Bensoussane wrote:In my imagination, Timmy looks something like a mixture of these two brown mongrel dogs (though the first one is on the small side):
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- Courtenay
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Re: Famous Five 90s Series
I don't believe Enid ever specifically mentions the length of Timmy's fur, so there's no real way of telling whose idea is "correct" there... I think Anita is following Betty Maxey's version!
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It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
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- Fiona1986
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Re: Famous Five 90s Series
Except Anita's suggestions appear to have their full complement of legs.
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- Courtenay
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Re: Famous Five 90s Series
True.
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It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
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- Anita Bensoussane
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Re: Famous Five 90s Series
Yes, the first illustrations of Timmy I ever saw were by Betty Maxey and they stuck in my mind. That was in 1977, before the TV series came out.Courtenay wrote:I think Anita is following Betty Maxey's version!
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- Courtenay
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Re: Famous Five 90s Series
Hang on... I just looked again and this one is missing his right foreleg too, just like Maxey's Timmy.Fiona1986 wrote:Except Anita's suggestions appear to have their full complement of legs.
(Could be worse, anyway — like the time when Maxey drew Julian with most of his lower half missing...)
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It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
- IceMaiden
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Re: Famous Five 90s Series
Sorry, Courtenay, I know you didn't say you believed he was one but another member had. It was that member I felt bad for dissapointing and squashing their suggestion . I do agree that if that breed had existed over here at the time, it would certainly be a good possibility for Timmy.Courtenay wrote: I'm not disappointed, don't worry — I didn't say I believed he was one, just that another forum member had suggested the possibility once before. As I said, the Podengo is a definite breed, not a mongrel, so he couldn't have been one even if they had been known in Britain at the time. But you're right, the date of introduction certainly rules that out.
I didn't know labradoodles could have a more Labrador-like coat — that's interesting. They've always been marketed in Australia (where they're quite common) as low-allergenic, so I assumed the poodle coat was always dominant. We had a cavoodle (Cavalier King Charles spaniel x poodle) for many years and her coat was exactly like a poodle's, not shedding and needing to be clipped regularly.
Anyway, I guess we'll never know for sure!
No the coat doesn't work like that. Lots of people believe it does but it actually all depends on which of the breed's coat a pup has inherited and how much if it. Something which is impossible to tell and can vary wildly even in the same litter. They're marketed as low-allergenic because they can shed less hair than other breeds but they can end up shedding the same amount or even more than them too. It's a myth that throwing a poodle into the mix automatically produces non shedding dogs. Apologies for going off topic.
That's a good point. By making Timmy a complete unknown there couldn't be a demand for 'Timmy dogs'. Remember when the live action 101 Dalmatians came out, there was a craze for Dalmatians? When the film stopped being the 'in thing' so did they.Daisy wrote:I wonder if the dog which inspired Enid was a collie type but that it was its disposition rather than looks which she was referring to when she made that remark. Making Timmy a mongrel (and she uses the word when she is first describing him) did at least prevent a stampede for any particular breed. Remember the Dulux dog and how that breed became popular for a while? Likewise the Andrex puppy? Making Timmy a mixture also gave the illustrator more scope I suppose.
Isn't it funny how we all conjure up a different image for the same thing? Your vision of Timmy is short haired, but to me he's longer coated. I know Enid doesn't specifically state one way or the other, but there are references to him having a shaggy coat and being able to pull on it playfully, which you can't do on a shorthaired dog. I think it's this plus Eileen Soper's illustrations that have always made me imagine Timmy to be fluffy.Anita Bensoussane wrote:In my imagination, Timmy looks something like a mixture of these two brown mongrel dogs (though the first one is on the small side):
http://i.imgur.com/TzyqbD4.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.warrenphotographic.co.uk/pho ... ground.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Famous Five 90s Series
Which is why, to me, anyway, tv/film adaptations rarely work.IceMaiden wrote: Isn't it funny how we all conjure up a different image for the same thing?
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- Julie2owlsdene
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Re: Famous Five 90s Series
Timmy for me will always be Eileen Soper, illustrations. A mixture of dogs.
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