"Crazy" Writers

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Ming
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"Crazy" Writers

Post by Ming »

I thought about this sometime in May when I was making an exam paper on J. M. Barrie. During my research I came across these two articles:

How bad was J, M, Barrie?
The Monster of Neverland

So in those two articles we have Barrie being overshadowed by David's death in his mother's eyes, stalking the Llewelyn Davies family, stealing the Davies boys from their father, tampering with a will, indirectly being the cause of lots of deaths and accusations of paedophilia.

What's the point of bringing up all this and why even cast these in a negative light?

From what I can gather, Barrie was a very affectionate family friend of the Davies. He became the guardian of the children following their parents' deaths, he took over the costs of Sylvia's treatments, he was a great friend to the children.

I can understand him being determined to be close to the Davies family because of the du Maurier connection. I'd naturally want to find ways to meet and become close to those I admire, especially if they were in the same line of work as I - why is him orchestrating the meeting with the boys painted in such a bad way?

Or was he really this bad and creepy? It's hard to imagine someone with so many bad things going for him can write books filled with love, laughter, friendship and fun. Do the troubles of their personal lives somehow fuel an urge to get out of it all, and they channel this into their writing, producing some of the world's best loved tales?

Are there other such "crazy" writers that you know of? When you found out about their personal lives, did it change your thinking about his/her works in any way?
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Re: "Crazy" Writers

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

I've just read the two articles, Ming, and found them interesting but somewhat confusing. I watched Finding Neverland some time ago and realised there must be more to the story than shown in the film, but I've never studied J. M. Barrie and haven't read/seen any of his plays or other works except Peter Pan, so I know very little of his life. From what is said in the articles he appears to have been manipulative and I find it difficult to believe that it could have been an accident that he transcibed Sylvia's will to make it look as though she was entrusting the care of her boys to him (Jimmy) rather than to her sister (Jenny). What happened to Sylvia's original handwritten document, I wonder? Why did no one ask to see it at the time?

That quotation from The Little White Bird makes for uncomfortable reading, yet people who were close to Barrie when they were children have defended him against any accusations of sexual abuse. And it seems very unfair that anyone should look upon him as some kind of curse or jinx. Several of Sylvia's five boys died tragically but Barrie can hardly be held responsible for one being killed in the First World War and another succumbing to lung disease - or for Peter's suicide 23 years after Barrie himself had died!

I've read similar things about Lewis Carroll, author of the "Alice" books, but again it's hard to know what to believe and I continue to enjoy the fantasy world of Wonderland as I have always done (the "Alice" books have been part of my life since I was five).
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Re: "Crazy" Writers

Post by Moonraker »

I tend to take most articles in the Daily Mail with a pinch of salt. As Anita says, it is hard to know what to believe - therefore, I believe none of it.
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Re: "Crazy" Writers

Post by Aurélien »

Newspapers slant articles, and craft headlines, to gain maximum readership. Which is why writers of newspaper articles draw so heavily upon the works of the brilliant (but sadly warped) Sigmund Freud rather than use the writings of the saner and more balanced Carl Jung.

That said, the ability to write well and entertainingly is no guarantee that one is a nice person.

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Re: "Crazy" Writers

Post by Courtenay »

I was reminded of this thread just now on reading this recent review in the Guardian of a new biography of Lewis Carroll, one that sets out "to explode the widespread opinion that the Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland author had an unhealthy interest in children": http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/n ... s-children" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's a quote from the author:
“Suggestions about [Carroll's] unhealthy attitude towards children seems to be one of the most prevalent myths that have dominated our present age – an age which looks askance at any relationship between adults and children … In the Victorian age, life and attitudes were very different. If a man took a group of young children – all unrelated to him – on a boat trip that lasted all afternoon, no one would mind in the slightest.”
I don't know if this casts any light on the similar allegations made about J.M. Barrie, with which Ming started this thread, but it's another reminder that the actions of people in the past can't always be assessed fairly through the attitudes and assumptions of the present.
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Re: "Crazy" Writers

Post by Ming »

Courtenay wrote:The actions of people in the past can't always be assessed fairly through the attitudes and assumptions of the present.
That certainly is true, Courtenay. You've summed it up quite nicely, which is why I find it so difficult that to understand how Barrie came under such accusations when the Davies boys themselves, if I remember correctly, denied such allegations. But his manipulation of the will does sound a little shady.

I almost feel sorry for Carroll that his life is being dug into in such detail!
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Re: "Crazy" Writers

Post by Courtenay »

Hi Ming! Good to see you here again. :D

I think part of the problem is society's appetite for sensationalism and scandal - an almost ghoulish fascination with pulling apart the lives of famous people, past and present, in search of some dirt to dig up. Sometimes it's as if researchers and commentators almost want to find some terrible flaw in a famous person, perhaps even to argue that this individual doesn't deserve the honour and respect he/she has been given.

That's bad enough, but in these cases with Barrie and Carroll, I think another factor might be that sexual abuse of children is now far more widely known about and covered in the media than it used to be, especially with high profile perpetrators like Jimmy Saville and others in the UK, for example. Now that cases like this are coming to light, people are understandably shocked and horrified and are wondering how a widely known and trusted figure like Saville could have got away with it for so long. It's a short step from there to wondering how many other male celebrities in the past, especially those who worked with or were close to children, were secretly doing the same.

To me, though, the problem is that there now seems to be an assumption that ANY man, now or in the past, who has had close contact with children must have a perverted ulterior motive. I'm not meaning to belittle those cases where this certainly did happen - it is one of the most despicable and heinous crimes there is - but I just find it terribly sad when any man who seems to like being with children instantly comes under suspicion.

I think that's what's also happening to some extent with figures from the past like Lewis Carroll and J.M. Barrie. Once, when child sexual abuse was covered up and not spoken about, it would have been unthinkable to suggest that perhaps these men did such things. Now, it's almost as if it's unthinkable to suggest that perhaps they didn't. :x
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Re: "Crazy" Writers

Post by Aurélien »

One notes, too, that adults who declare that, during their childhood years, they were never ever abused (in any way) by the adults around them are sometimes blandly assumed to be 'in denial'. Just a tad disturbing!

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Re: "Crazy" Writers

Post by Ming »

You've hit the nail on the head, Courtenay!
Courtenay wrote:To me, though, the problem is that there now seems to be an assumption that ANY man, now or in the past, who has had close contact with children must have a perverted ulterior motive. I'm not meaning to belittle those cases where this certainly did happen - it is one of the most despicable and heinous crimes there is - but I just find it terribly sad when any man who seems to like being with children instantly comes under suspicion.
I love children but I dare not approach or speak to any child here. I smile and that's it. It goes against my very nature to not have a conversation with a child but there you go. :roll: I don't mean to belittle the crime either (especially not since a child from my home town was murdered by a homosexual paedophile a couple of weeks ago) but it is indeed sad that even well meaning people come under suspicion.
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Re: "Crazy" Writers

Post by Moonraker »

I don't know why, but kids often approach me! I deal with this by getting eye contact with the parent asap and bringing her (usually female) into the conversation. A little girl charged into me the other day, excitedly talking about a book she had in her hand. I looked at the adult with her and said, "Wrong camera!" We all had a laugh about it.
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