Seeking specific Brer Rabbit (non-Blyton), Wizard of Oz eds.

[MJE]

Hullo.

     I'm going to post a request for information on two books I've been looking for for a long time. I have posted these requests in a few places before, with no results, but I don't think I have here. (And please forgive me if I have and I've forgotten.)
     They are both books I had as a child, and I would very much like to find these particular editions again, but both books exist in so many different editions that I think this quest is a close approach to a definition of "impossible". One was a particular lavishly-illustrated edition of "The Wizard of Oz", and the other was a lavishly-illustrated edition of Brer Rabbit stories. (I don't think it was a Blyton version, although I can't be totally sure of that.)
     I will try to describe them briefly, but won't try to strain for too much detail. Instead, I will ask if anyone knows whether there are definitive web sites about either "The Wizard of Oz" or "Brer Rabbit", which are well-known as comprehensive sources of information about these, and which have detailed lists of different editions and versions that have appeared. Probably sample illustrations would need to be there too, because it will actually be difficult to describe these in words, but I would recognize either book at a glance if I just saw a few illustrations, some of which I still remember clearly.

     "The Wizard of Oz" was in a large hardcover format, no later than the early 1960s (because that's when I had it), and possibly some years or a decade or two earlier; and I think it probably contained the entire story, and probably the original text (that is, not abridged or simplified), and there were many, many illustrations in full colour, and the whole book probably had over a hundred pages in it. Many of the illustrations were the sort that filled a whole page, with parts of them at the bottom or edges being a background on which the text was actually superimposed - if you know what I mean. One huge illustration featured Dorothy being wheeled across a field of poppies by thousands of mice, because she had fallen asleep from the scent of the poppies.
     The most remarkable feature about the illustrations was the surreal geography that featured in some of them, especially some of the landscapes the Yellow Brick Road passed through. There were places where the ground seemed to drop away steeply on one or both sides of the Road, so that you could actually look down at maybe a 45-degree angle and see sky, because the surface of the ground just fell away steeply literally for ever, as if there were bottomless sky beneath you as well as above. Sometimes these slopes would sweep upwards so that in another direction there were mountains that towered over you - it was as if the earth itself were weirdly distorted in shape, and not more or less flat (to the eye at least). A number of illustrations, not just one, had effects of this sort, although differently in each instance.
     I think that is such an unusual style of illustration that it alone should identify the edition. I suspect the edition might have been from around the 1950s, because it was already somewhat old when I had it in the 1960s, and the style of illustrations somehow seemed 1950s-ish.

     The Brer Rabbit book is harder to describe. The book was a hardcover, but just medium in size, not large like the Oz book. Again, it's from no later than the early 1960s, and again there were lavish full-colour illustrations. Similarly to the Oz book, some filled a page or even a double page and had areas where the text was printed on parts of the illustration - I think that's a style I've seen quite often in full-colour illustrated hardcovers for children - I guess printers have a term for that.
     The illustrations were almost photographic in their detail and colour sensitivity, although they were done by an artist. One illustration I recall appeared within the first few pages of the book, and spread across a double page. In the middle was a stream, and on either side the land rose up slightly, covered with lush grass, trees, bushes, and so on - a path went across the stream, and (probably) one or more characters were walking along the path. I know that sounds vague, but I'm sure I would recognize this picture instantly if I were to see it - as well as the way the tar-baby was depicted.
     I think the first several stories followed the same sequence as the first several stories in Enid Blyton's first Brer Rabbit book in the Dean series, although I'm not totally sure if the sequence was exactly the same. I know the tar-baby story appeared in about the second or third chapter.
     Unfortunately I don't remember the exact title of the book, except that I think it was something fairly generic such as "Brer Rabbit Book" or similar - nothing out-of-the-way at all. I actually acquired this book new in the early 1960s, so I feel pretty sure it was from that time, not the 1950s or earlier; besides, the style seemed more like the 1960s than earlier.

     Anyway, I realize it's probably futile to hope anyone here can recognize either of these books from the descriptions I've just tried to give. But if anyone knows of good web sites where I could see sample pages, and which catalogue many different editions, it might help.
     In general, would anyone have any tips on how I might identify these editions? If I could find a publisher's name or author's name, then it's just a matter of hunting in the usual places.
     Is this a totally lost cause?
     Thanks.

Regards, Michael.

[Icecream342]

The brier Rabbit one could be Beatrix Potter

[MJE]

The brier Rabbit one could be Beatrix Potter

     I don't think so. That was *Peter* Rabbit, wasn't it? - not *Brer* Rabbit? (I didn't read that, though, which is why I'm not totally sure.) The book I was referring to was definitely Brer Rabbit, and included the Tar Baby story in the second or third chapter. (The first half-dozen or so chapters were sort of linked, as if they were succeeding events in a continuing story, then after that the chapters tended to be more like individual stories - which, as I recall, is similar to Enid Blyton's first Dean edition Brer Rabbit book. It's even conceivable that this was an edition of that book, although I somehow think not - but the specific illustrations I described before are one of the memorable aspects of the book.)
     Well, I can't say much more about these two books of which I'm looking for specific (possibly rare) editions, and it is probably a lost cause. But if anyone who comes across this thread even months or years later knows the vital clue that may help me, I would be very grateful if they would share it with me. Thanks.

Regards, Michael.

[zaidi]

The Brer Rabbit book is harder to describe. The book was a hardcover, but just medium in size, not large like the Oz book. Again, it's from no later than the early 1960s, and again there were lavish full-colour illustrations. Similarly to the Oz book, some filled a page or even a double page and had areas where the text was printed on parts of the illustration - I think that's a style I've seen quite often in full-colour illustrated hardcovers for children - I guess printers have a term for that

Michael, my teacher told me that she loved this book alot when i was writing a review of Enid Blyton.
This one on Amazon is from Blyton:http://www.amazon.com/Enid-Blytons-Brer ... 572&sr=8-3
This one is from some other writer:http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Tales-Bre ... 644&sr=1-1
If you wanna buy through a book store. You can take the name and you'll find it.

[Icecream342]

I am sure that Brier rabbit wa one of potters

[Moonraker]

I am sure that Brier rabbit wa one of potters

I've not heard of Brier Rabbit, but Brer Rabbit was nothing to do with Beatrix Potter. I read many Brer Rabbit stories as a child, but they were all by "Uncle Remus". I have never read the Enid Blyton versions. Not sure if you know this, Icecream (I wish we could call you by a proper name!), but Br'er (to give it its correct grammatical spelling) is an abbreviation of brother.

[MJE]

     I just took a look at this topic and got a bit of a scare. I wrote a longish reply to an earlier post just some hours ago - and found it was now gone! And I thought I'd never be able to rewrite it again and post now.
     Now I realize that I still haven't quite finished editing it and so it's still in the edit window, but not posted.
     I will finish that now and post it.

Regards, Michael.

[MJE]

     Thanks for these links, Zaidi. I'm pretty sure they're not right - but it does eliminate two possibilities.

Michael, my teacher told me that she loved this book alot when i was writing a review of Enid Blyton.
This one on Amazon is from Blyton:http://www.amazon.com/Enid-Blytons-Brer ... 572&sr=8-3

     I'm pretty sure this is not it, although I'd need to see at least a few internal pictures to be totally sure. The cover is definitely not the one I knew, although sometimes covers can change while both text and internal illustrations can remain the same. This edition is also identifiable as being incorrect from its date from the 1970s.
     I am fairly sure the one I had was not a Blyton one, although I suppose I can't be totally sure, because this was almost certainly before I read anything at all by Enid Blyton; so if her name had been on the cover it is possible that at that time I just may not have taken any notice of it, or remembered it.

This one is from some other writer:http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Tales-Bre ... 644&sr=1-1

     This is definitely not the one. A date isn't given; but, unlike the previous book, this one offered a view of sample pages inside, and I can tell at a glance that it was not this. If the text is by Joel Chandler Harris, it is quite old now, whereas I have the vague feeling that the text in my copy was modernized to some extent, although keeping the same general feel you expect in Brer Rabbit stories. And the pictures in my copy had a more modern look than the ones in this one.
     But thank you for pointing these out anyway.

     I do have the feeling that my best chance of finding the needle in the haystack is if, one day, I find a web site created by a Brer Rabbit enthusiast who knows all the different editions and lists them, along with sample pages from inside each one. In that case I believe I would recognize the correct one almost at a glance.
     And the same, for that matter, with "The Wizard of Oz". Perhaps there is some real expert out there who's researched it all, and maybe one day they will create a web site about it, and I may find it.
     I can't help having the weird feeling, though, that, just possibly, my memory of these books may have gradually changed over the years, bit by bit, with me being unaware of it, and what I think I remember may have shifted quite a lot from the original copies I did have, so that maybe I *wouldn't* recognize them at all, or only very dimly. After all, some experts say that, every time you recall a memory, you don't just refer to an invariable record in your mind; rather, you read the memory, and then, as you contemplate it, you change bits of it unintentionally, and then write back this new memory into your brain, on top of the old one. In other words, every time you recall an old memory you actually change it a bit more, possibly in ways that are inaccurate. It's a bit like reading a computer file, then editing it, then writing it back on top of the old copy, so it no longer exists. There are some researchers who think human memory works only in that way, which is one reason why human memory is so unreliable, especially about long-ago events. (It is said that any judge or juror knows this only too well, as witnesses conflict with each other even about basic, simple facts.)
     However, there is one thing that persuades me that memory may (at least for me) be much more reliable than this. Occasionally I have seen in bookshops very old books I used to know, but my memory of which had become rather vague. Sometimes the book was not of enough interest for me to buy again, but I might look through it to see how much I could remember. And I do find that the bits I do remember are usually accurate; and also that seeing the book again afresh causes me to remember again things I had long forgotten.
     This happened just the other day, when I bought a book by Robert Lawson called "Robbut: A Tale of Tails" which I used to have as a child, probably even earlier than the Wizard of Oz and Brer Rabbit books referred to above. The few bits I did remember were quite accurate, as it turned out, and far more became familiar again upon seeing it after having forgotten it since the early 1960s or so. This applied to both text and pictures.
     So my memory may be quite reliable after all - but of course I can speak only for myself on that. I guess that's of some comfort, because when I hear of psychology researchers describing the way memory really works, it actually makes me feel very uneasy. The idea of memory constantly changing without you even knowing it can undermine your sense of the very essence of yourself continuing (what *are* you if not the totality of your mind, a big part of which is your memories?); and it can give the surreal feeling of a constantly shifting world where even truth doesn't remain the same, and in a sense doesn't even exist. And if your memories keep changing, in a sense you yourself don't even exist, except as a fickle and unreliable and ever-changing pattern of electro-chemical impulses in your brain.

Regards, Michael.

[MJE]

     Hallo, everyone. I do seem to have fallen away from the forum lately - I suppose other preoccupations seem to be taking more of my time, and I never was efficient or organized with time (which is the understatement of the year). I expect I will come back again some time quite frequently, though - as I have done in the past.

     But I just thought I'd say, for anyone who may be interested, that I just happened upon the answer to half of my original post here. If you look above, you will see that I asked about particular editions of: (a) a Brer Rabbit book I had as a child (I think not a Blyton one); and (b) "The Wizard of Oz", with particular illustrations.
     Well, I have found the latter on a web site, all of a sudden.
     It wasn't quite an accident. Earlier tonight, I was watching the 1939 film "The Wizard of Oz", starring Judy Garland, with my mother (where I am now, and I don't have T.V. at home, so I could only have seen it if I had been here). I don't watch films very often, but when I do, if I find them interesting, I get curious about aspects of them, and go onto the Internet afterwards to look up things about them. So I've been reading about "The Wizard of Oz" for a little while tonight - both the original book (and series of books) and the film, and the differences between them. And I downloaded a Gutenberg free copy of the book for reading later.
     And I turned to thinking about that copy I had as a child, as I have often done from time to time over the years. I did lose a lot of my childhood books, unfortunately (I'm pretty sure that one was very tatty by then, anyway), and have gradually been collecting some of them again in the same editions. Most have been easy to find, because I remembered enough identifying information about them, and the edition I sought was either the only one or one of the most common ones - but this one defeated me for many years.
     The Wikipedia article on "The Yellow Brick Road" said there were two yellow brick roads in the series of books, and said that the other "lacked the chasms" of the road that Dorothy followed - and that caught my attention, both because I recalled that one of the distinguishing features in the illustrations of my old, lost copy was the many chasms on the side of the yellow brick road, and also because I never recalled the text mentioning chasms, and simply thought the illustrator had put them in. But, taken with an idea, I Googled for "yellow brick road" and "chasms", and simply got led back to the Wikipedia article. (There were many other search results, but none of them seemed meaningful on the surface.)
     But I decided to search in "Images" instead (but changing the search to "Wizard of Oz", "illustrations"), thinking it would show many different illustrations from various editions of the book, and feeling sure that, if the illustrations in my old copy turned up, I would instantly recognize them.
     I started looking down the dozens and dozens of illustrations that showed up - and, a few screens down, I saw an image and recognized it instantly, despite the maybe half-century since I had last seen them. It can be seen here:

  http://www.flickriver.com/photos/missch ... 630603016/

and a slightly different version here:

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/misschicken/2630603016/

I had not the slightest difficulty recognizing this as one of the illustrations - it was as if I'd seen it only last week.
     I knew I had it now: the illustrator was identified as Anton Loeb, and that would give me something to search for - and I quickly found that the book I was after was *not* the original text, as I previously thought, but an adaptation by Allen Chaffee. And hey presto, I found that copies are not at all difficult to find on eBay, and not unduly expensive, either (as I had thought possible). So I'm going to look through the listings and see which one seems to give better value for price.
     If you go here:

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/misschicke ... 2630603016

you can see thumbnails of further illustrations from the book, each leading to a full-size version.
     Just shows that an impossible search can be made easy and quick if you have the right identifying details - in this case the illustrator's name.

     So I'm going to try the same thing in Google Images now for Brer Rabbit, and see if I can see that book, too. I feel sure I have tried this before, though, with both books, and obviously with no success. I can only conclude that that was before "Miss Chicken" had put up her Oz pictures, although those seem to have been there a few years now. So it's a mystery why I didn't find this years before.
     As ever, if anyone can help me with the Brer Rabbit book (for details of which see my first post in this thread), I would be very grateful.
     That would be good, because those were the two remaining books I remembered, which I wanted but couldn't find. (There may be others I barely remember, but I don't especially want to find them, except possibly for a book of Bible stories with most dramatic illustrations (the Tower of Babel, for instance, with dark, stormy clouds gathering around it). That's an idea - I'll try searching in Images for that, too, because I'd recognize most of those pictures just as easily at first sight.)

Regards, Michael.

[Anita Bensoussane]

Thanks for letting us know you've been able to identify the Wizard of Oz book, Michael. The illustrations look very attractive. I know how exciting it is to track down a long-lost book. When we were little my sister and I had a big volume containing poetry, nursery rhymes, short stories and extracts from novels, all beautifully illustrated. Our parents must have passed it on to someone else at some point, and as an adult I could recall many of the contents and pictures but not the name of the book or the editor. It took several internet searches (Googling words relating to the contents and hoping they might be mentioned in a description somewhere) before I found the volume I remembered - The Illustrated Treasury of Children's Literature edited by Margaret Martignoni. I was able to buy a copy and was delighted to find that it was every bit as good as I remembered.

[MJE]

     I guess many people would have similar stories to yours and mine, Anita. I sometimes wonder if parents think about the ramifications years later when they persuade children to part from books because they're supposedly "growing out" of them, but which the children may not really want to part with, but can't say so without feeling they're being too childish.
     I just found another page with yet more of Loeb's "Oz" illustrations - here:

  http://illusstation.blogspot.com.au/200 ... -loeb.html

     I've also been trying to search for the Brer Rabbit illustrations and the Bible story ones, but with no success - I have a feeling those will be far more difficult - a true "needle in haystack" task.
     For Brer Rabbit, I would recognize the general style of pictures, but not anything I can easily sum up in words, except as I did so at the start of this thread. I do remember the tar-baby, though: it seemed to be straighter in style than most depictions of tar-babies are, with more corners on it somehow. I tried searching specifically for tar-babies, but nothing like that has turned up.
     As for the Bible stories, I tried searching for the Tower of Babel, thinking I'd recognize the rounded, tapering style of tower, with a spiral ramp going up it - but I found that that style of tower has been depicted for centuries by many people - so that didn't help much. I would recognize the specific one in the book I used to know (it was actually my younger brother's, not my own), but until then I can't identify details to search for.
     I also thought I'd recognize the picture of Elijah receiving bread from a raven, and so searched for that, too. Again, there are many, many images of that, but none that seemed right.
     So I don't know if I will succeed with those particular searches.

Regards, Michael.

[Fiona1986]

Thankfully most if not all of my favourite childhood books were kept. A few things were got rid of, but I think that was because my parents hadn't realised a particular title was important to me. For Christmas I got a copy of "The Dark Crystal", the same edition I had as a child. I was completely unaware that it was based on a film until about 10 years ago, by which time the storybook had been given away, sold or otherwise disposed of.

Glad to hear you finally found the right edition Michael and it's nice to see you on the forums again.

I'd forgotten there is one other book I wish my parents had kept. A bit like your quest, Michael, I remember some details but not enough to ever have found the exact edition.

I remember it contained a mixture of content. There was a several page story for each month, and between those were lots of very short stories. Many of them were fables by Aesop (maybe they all were, I can't be sure). I remember a handful of my most favourite fables and the coloured illustrations that accompanied them but there's nothing unique in any of them that'd help my identify the book. I think it was an A4 sized hardback with a red cover, but that's about it.

I would have had it in the late 80s or early 90s and it was probably published around then.

[RachelGee]

I dont know if the book you mean is the Eind Blyton's Brer Rabbit Book illustrated by Douglas Hall?
I am looking for the white cover version at the moment.

The red cover version appears on quite a few sites.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ENID-BLYTONS ... 2323008dc9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;