The Enid Blyton Society

Deej wrote:Thank as well Anita - maybe you could give me some help along the way.

I'd be pleased to - if I can remember enough to be of help!

pete9012S wrote:
The book can be read in pdf form here.It's a great read..

George Borrow- Wild Wales 1862
http://psychopixi.com/wp-content/novels ... 201862.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was given a hardback edition of Wild Wales by my father-in-law over 20 years ago, and it is a great read.

At the time my job involved travelling around large parts of rural Wales from Cardigan up to Porthmadog and across to Powys, so quite a lot of the ground that George Borrow covered.

I was sent on a Welsh language course by my employer, and I still remember bits and pieces, including how to order two pints of beer as well as ask for fish'n'chips...

There's still a pub called the George Borrow hotel on the road to Aberystwyth, my sister in law has a small farm quite close by...

Deej wrote:Come to think of it, I think it is actually Nos da in Welsh as well!

It is indeed Nos da. (good night. Da/ good, night/nos) Notice the literal translation being vice versa. I'm ashamed to say I do not speak fluent Welsh but I made sure my children do, so if they can answer any queries for you, and I can tie them down for a minute, I'm sure they'll be pleased to help.

Well, I did the first level of the Cornish course yesterday, and I can already put a few sentences together, like My a yll kewsel Kernewek lemmyn (I can speak Cornish now)! (Well, a bit, that is... and I had to look up some of the spelling )

It's quite intensive, the course, and a bit of a different way to learn, but I vouch it's worth a try - thanks again, Deej. I'm looking forward to moving on to the next level today!

Hi Deej, we were given Welsh lessons as part of the 'improve Welsh in schools' initiative and they used that site. The teacher was exceptionally good though and used other methods too. He also recommended this on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gXToPIIarg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hwyl i Ti!

Maggie Knows wrote:I was sent on a Welsh language course by my employer, and I still remember bits and pieces, including how to order two pints of beer as well as ask for fish'n'chips...

"Fish 'n' chips" sounds great in Welsh - "pysgod a sglodion"!

As it's been such a long time since I learnt Welsh, I've decided to work through the lessons on Deej's link. I'm not sure whether I'll manage them very regularly, though! I've just done Course 1, Main Lesson 1 (Northern) and was reminded of two quite basic verbs which I'd forgotten - "gwybod" (to know) and "medru" (to be able). I was sorry to discover that "licio" is used more commonly than "hoffi" (both meaning "to like"). We were taught "hoffi" in school and I always thought it was a lovely word.

As I've learnt Welsh before, I'm familiar with the spelling. However, if I came to that website as a complete beginner I think I'd find it annoying not to see the words written down. I've found an online dictionary which translates words from English into Welsh (and vice versa) - it might be useful to use that in conjunction with the lessons:

http://glosbe.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I never was fluent in Welsh, but one day I'd like to be able to say, "Dw i'n medru siarad Cymraeg" ("I can speak Welsh").

I was also taught 'hoffi', Anita and in the South it is still used. Those North Waleans do,as you say have some different translations to the General Welsh taught in school but they are often a law unto themselves. Lol. (There is a friendly rivalry between North and South, for those who are unaware.)

Wayne Pyer wrote:(There is a friendly rivalry between North and South, for those who are unaware.)

So I've heard, Wayne... could that have something to do with why Captain James Cook, on landing in Australia in 1770 and claiming it for Britain, first named it New Wales - and then not long afterwards, changed it to New South Wales??

When I was younger, I seem to remember the Welsh characters in comedy shows always seemed to say something like 'Yukky Dah'. Is that really a Welsh saying? (Different spelling presumably).

Iechyd da - it means 'good health' or something of that kind

Courtenay wrote:

Wayne Pyer wrote:(There is a friendly rivalry between North and South, for those who are unaware.)

So I've heard, Wayne... could that have something to do with why Captain James Cook, on landing in Australia in 1770 and claiming it for Britain, first named it New Wales - and then not long afterwards, changed it to New South Wales??

Yes Courtney. Your spot on.

I have a hard disk problem with my laptop at the moment. Once it is repaired, I think I'll try this course too.

Wayne Pyer wrote:

Courtenay wrote: So I've heard, Wayne... could that have something to do with why Captain James Cook, on landing in Australia in 1770 and claiming it for Britain, first named it New Wales - and then not long afterwards, changed it to New South Wales??

Yes Courtney. Your spot on.

Mind you, it seems Captain Cook was born in Yorkshire, and I haven't yet found out what his connection with (South) Wales was! In any case, of course, that region of Australia (first a colony, now a state) remains New South Wales to this day.

How are the Welsh lessons going, Deej... can you say Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch yet?? (sorry, couldn't resist)

Haven't had as much time yet as I'd like to on the Cornish course, but it's good, and lots of fun, if a bit hard! I'll do some more in the next couple of days when I'm off work.

Quotations brought over from another thread.

Courtenay wrote:

Anita Bensoussane wrote:Welsh shares that trait [i.e. phonetic spelling] with Cornish - once you've learnt all the Welsh letter sounds it's fairly easy to work out how to pronounce a new word.

True, but the Cornish letter sounds are a lot more obvious to a native English speaker than the Welsh ones!! Also, Cornish doesn't have the infamous "ll" (bilateral fricative, to use the technical term) - as in "Llanfairpwllgwyngll... etc."

It's interesting that Cornish doesn't have the "ll" sound. Welsh also has the "ch" sound (as in the Scottish word "loch") - is that found in Cornish? And do the initial letters of some Cornish words mutate in certain situations, as they do in Welsh?

Anita Bensoussane wrote:

Courtenay wrote:In Cornish, "I want to eat a pastie" would be "My a vynn pasti dybri."

Although the two languages share a common origin, the Welsh for "I want to eat a pasty" is quite different - "Dw i eisiau bwyta pastai". A Welsh pasty, made with Welsh beef or lamb and various vegetables including leeks, is called an "oggie".

Courtenay wrote:Yes, I've heard that term too - I believe it's sometimes used in Cornwall as well. Some suggest that the traditional Australian sporting chant of "Aussie Aussie Aussie!" - "Oi Oi Oi!" comes from Welsh or Cornish miner's wives letting their menfolk in the mines know their lunch was ready - with a shout down the mineshaft of "Oggie oggie oggie!" and a reply of "Oi oi oi!" from the hungry miners. But unless someone from Wales or Cornwall can confirm this really was done, I can't be sure whether it's a true explanation.

"Oggie oggie oggie!" - "Oi oi oi!" is certainly chanted at sports matches in Wales, but whether the expression originated with miners I don't know.

walter raleigh wrote:The grammar of Cornish looks a little like Welsh. Unsurpising as they are probably related to each other. What's Cornish for window?

Courtenay wrote:Fenester, I believe - which is obviously from the same Latin root as German Fenster and French fenêtre.

Anita Bensoussane wrote:The Welsh word is "ffenest" - so once again it's from a Latin root. A few other words in Welsh have Latin origins too, e.g. "pont" (bridge), "trist" (sad), "eglwys" (church), some numbers, some names of months...

Courtenay wrote:Yes, I've noticed this in some Cornish words too - in the same way, "eglos" is church, "trist" is sad, and "pons" is bridge. It may be because Latin-speaking Christian missionaries reached Britain long before the Anglo-Saxons did, so some Latin words were absorbed into the Celtic languages. (There's a persistent legend that Jesus himself visited Cornwall and Somerset as a young man - hence the hymn "Jerusalem" ("And did those feet in ancient time...") - but I don't think anyone's ever been able to prove that one!! )

Much of Britain was under Roman rule from 43 AD to 409 AD - and yes, Latin-speaking Christian missionaries did reach Britain before the Anglo-Saxons.

How are people getting on with their Welsh/Cornish courses? I'm enjoying the Welsh one. I love the sounds of certain words, e.g. "Mehefin" (June) which is pronounced Meh-hev-in, "chwech" (six) which sounds gloriously throaty, and "cysgu" (to sleep) which is pronounced cuss-gy.

I do get a bit frustrated by all the initial letter mutations - e.g. Cymru (Wales) can be "Cymru", "Gymru", "Nghymru" or "Chymru" depending on context!

I was surprised to learn that "Gorffennaf" (July) means, literally, "end of summer" ("gorffen" means "end" and "haf" means "summer"). Doesn't August count as summer, then?!

The lessons are well thought out and fun to do, and it's a privilege to be speaking one of the most ancient languages of Britain. Thanks for providing the link, Deej!

Anita Bensoussane wrote: I was surprised to learn that "Gorffennaf" (July) means, literally, "end of summer" ("gorffen" means "end" and "haf" means "summer"). Doesn't August count as summer, then?!

Not in Wales usually, no. Then again half the time June and July hardly count as summer either!