Learning Welsh (and Other Languages)

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Courtenay
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Re: Learning Welsh (and Other Languages)

Post by Courtenay »

Split from another topic.
Anne Henriette wrote:I have always thought that French people are very... intolerant when it comes to languages. Most of them are not ready to learn another language. And they do not really tolerate that foreigners speak to them in another language than French! It is nombrilistic (does this word even exist in English?!) and quite arrogant I think...
I have to admit — and no offence meant to Anne or any other French people here — my parents and I noticed this when we visited Paris a couple of years ago. Certainly not everyone there was like that (and we did get by in French as much as we could), but I just remember in particular, there was a very expensive restaurant we went to one evening for a treat. We asked the waiter "Parlez-vous Anglais?" and got a blunt "Non." Then by the time we'd finished and he could see just how much money we'd spent there, he started talking to us in English... :wink:

That said, a lot of English people — and Australians too, if they don't have a second language in their family — are just as reluctant to try speaking another language if the other person can possibly be persuaded to speak English! :lol:
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Re: What other author are you reading at the moment?

Post by Chrissie777 »

Courtenay wrote:...That said, a lot of English people — and Australians too, if they don't have a second language in their family — are just as reluctant to try speaking another language if the other person can possibly be persuaded to speak English! :lol:
Between 1972 and 2008 I went 10 times on longer vacations to France and whenever I spoke French to the local people, I did not have that problem. They aIways answered and I was able to have a conversation with them.
But it happened to my husband when we were in Paris and I assume it must have been the difference between French-Canadian French and Parisian French. They just couldn't understand his accent.
Somewhere I did read that French people usually warm up to you if you make an honest effort to try speaking French to them and that was my experience.
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Re: What other author are you reading at the moment?

Post by Chrissie777 »

Anne Henriette wrote:French and German are not easy languages to learn. But so is English for people who do not speak another language than their own ;)
I started learning English when I was 10 years old. When I was 12, we had to decide to either learn French, Latin or Greek as a 2nd language.
Those 2 years of English helped me a lot with learning French.
Yes, French grammar is not easy compared with English grammar, but we had a great grammar book at French lessons (and since amazon is existing, I was trying in vain to find it used at amazon.de). If I had that grammar book again, I could improve my French. I just know :)!
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Re: What other author are you reading at the moment?

Post by Poppy »

I have got a friend who's Mum is Italian, so she has taught be a few Italian phrases! I find it very hard to remember, though! :lol:

I was quite impressed the other day, when my sister told me about a girl in her class who is Greek and is the only person in her family who can speak both Greek and English, so she has to translate for her parents!
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Re: What other author are you reading at the moment?

Post by Courtenay »

Poppy wrote: I was quite impressed the other day, when my sister told me about a girl in her class who is Greek and is the only person in her family who can speak both Greek and English, so she has to translate for her parents!
My mum was in a similar situation when she was at school, Poppy. She and her family came as refugees to Australia after the Second World War (Mum was still a baby then); they spoke Polish at home, but Mum and her brothers and sisters learned to speak English at school. Even when they were in a government-run refugee camp in Somers (near Melbourne) for a number of years after their arrival, there was never any attempt to teach the adults English, so Mum and her siblings — and most of their friends, too — had to translate things from English for their parents. My grandmother did eventually learn to speak English very well, but my grandfather never did. (He worked on the railways with other immigrants from many different countries, so together they spoke a hotchpotch of broken English and bits of other languages, which they could understand but no-one else could!)

Learning a language is a lot easier when you have other people to practise it with and real-life situations to use it in, rather than just using it in a classroom environment, I'm sure. Once you start relating words and sentences to real things and activities that you do every day, those words come to life a lot more and become that much easier to remember. :D
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Re: What other author are you reading at the moment?

Post by Chrissie777 »

Courtenay wrote: My mum and her family came as refugees to Australia after the Second World War (Mum was still a baby then); they spoke Polish at home, but Mum and her brothers and sisters learned to speak English at school.
Courtenay, my mom did flee with her parents from Poland to West Germany in January 1945 via open cattle (car?) train, all three of them had frozen feet by the time they were able to get off the train.
My mom grew up bilingual in Poland (Polish and German) and finished high school in Germany three years later, then went to university. Her mom, my beloved grandmother, kept speaking broken German as long as she lived. But we could communicate well nevertheless :). She even taught me lots of Polish words and the numbers from 1 to 10. They are similar to the Russian numbers 1 to 10.
My mom learned a bit of English at school and can talk with my husband on the phone, but not much. My dad who grew up in Silesia (which was part of Germany until 1945, now belongs to Poland), only learned Russian as a 2nd language, no English at all. Later on when I learned English at high school, he often needed my help to translate the titles of many old US jazz songs that he recorded from the radio.
He loved old jazz (and so do I :)).

We learned Oxford English at high school in Germany which is a bit different in pronunciation from American English, so in the beginning after my immigration (2002) Americans had a very hard time understanding me and I ended up repeating every single sentence twice or three times (even if I was convinced that I had pronounced it the proper way :)).
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Re: What other author are you reading at the moment?

Post by Poppy »

Fascinating stories - thanks for sharing them, Courtenay and Chrissie! :D

Yes, I imagine that learning a language is much easier when you are learning it (or picking it up) in an everyday situation.
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Re: What other author are you reading at the moment?

Post by Francis »

Anne Henriette wrote
I have always thought that French people are very... intolerant when it comes to languages. Most of them are not ready to learn another language. And they do not really tolerate that foreigners speak to them in another language than French!
The French are very similar to the English in this way. We find it easier to read French than speak it. Not surprising when you realise that 40% of English words have a French origin. I have never had a problem dealing wit French people in Paris despite having spent about 12 holidays there. Mind you I have spent most of my time searching French antique and collector markets looing for my cartes postales anciennes. Once you have a common interest you always have a connection.
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Re: What other author are you reading at the moment?

Post by Chrissie777 »

Francis wrote:...Once you have a common interest you always have a connection.
Very true :)!
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Re: Learning Welsh (and Other Languages)

Post by Aussie Sue »

Courtenay wrote:I have to admit — and no offence meant to Anne or any other French people here — my parents and I noticed this when we visited Paris a couple of years ago. Certainly not everyone there was like that (and we did get by in French as much as we could), but I just remember in particular, there was a very expensive restaurant we went to one evening for a treat. We asked the waiter "Parlez-vous Anglais?" and got a blunt "Non." Then by the time we'd finished and he could see just how much money we'd spent there, he started talking to us in English... :wink:
This reminds me of my only bad experience travelling alone in Europe. I was going to meet my daughter in Milan and my flight from Australia changed from Qantas to Air Italia in Paris. This was my first time in Paris airport and there was very little time between planes. After eventually finding the right airport bus to get to where Air Italia landed I became lost in the huge building and couldn't find any signs for Air Italia. Very stressed I went to the person on an information desk and asked "Parlez-vous Anglais" He said "non". Tears came into my eyes as I had been flying for 22 hours and was about to miss my connection to Milan. He then said very clearly in English "What do you want?"

My experience when I then reached Air Italia was the exact opposite. Boarding had closed and the plane was ready for departure. They stopped the plane and raced me on board and then fussed over me on the plane to make sure I was okay.

Cultures can be so different. Having said that I have some great French friends.

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Re: Learning Welsh (and Other Languages)

Post by floragord »

We lived for a while in an area of France where no Franglais would pass muster, no one there spoke any English at all, so it was a sharp learning curve from long-ago school-lesson vocabulary and conversation to everyday living essentials, when we go back to France or Belgium now we can switch from English to French, then back again at Eurotunnel 8)
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Re: Learning Welsh (and Other Languages)

Post by Chrissie777 »

floragord wrote:...when we go back to France or Belgium now we can switch from English to French, then back again at Eurotunnel 8)
I envy you for that ability :)!
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Re: Learning Welsh (and Other Languages)

Post by Courtenay »

Here's something I found quite moving and surprising in The Guardian (via a link from the article Aussie Sue posted elsewhere about how Enid Blyton gave the writer a sense of social justice):

The rabbit language of Watership Down helped me make the leap into English

Watership Down has been one of my favourite books — Lapine and all — since childhood, so I was delighted to read about the impact it had on a young German speaker learning English!
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Re: Learning Welsh (and Other Languages)

Post by Aussie Sue »

Courtney, Watership Down is in my list of favourite books and it had quite an impact on me when I read it many years ago. I did enjoy reading this young German boys impression of this book.

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Re: Learning Welsh (and Other Languages)

Post by floragord »

Chrissie777 wrote:
floragord wrote:...when we go back to France or Belgium now we can switch from English to French, then back again at Eurotunnel 8)
I envy you for that ability :)!
I think it was just down to the "full immersion" in the language, Chrissie, nothing like improving at the speed of light if everyone looks blank most of the time when questioned about the relative merits of
St Nectaire over St Agur in best Franglais ..... :wink:
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