Learning Welsh (and Other Languages)

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Moonraker
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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Moonraker »

It's all Double Dutch to me! I am surprised that Welsh is in decline. On recent trips to Wales it seems to me that most people speak their native language. As for any superiority over neighbours, I must side with Courtenay on this one. The English are the most non-nationalistic of all the British nationalities. We have nothing to feel superior about our neighbours. I admire their nationalism, which we English don't have. Most people don't even know which way round to hang our flag.
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Anita Bensoussane
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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

What do you mean about which way round to hang the flag? Doesn't a red cross look the same either way up?
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

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Lucky Star
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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Lucky Star »

I guess he's referring to the Union flag rather than St George's Cross. Many people inadvertently fly it upside down which is actually a sign of distress.

I also agree that the English are probably the least nationalistic people in these islands. As far as I can see they seem to put up with every insult under the sun unlike the Celtic neighbours who go ballistic at any perceived slight. And bear in mind that I am Irish; we are frequently the worst offenders in the offence taking stakes.
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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Daisy »

The red cross does Anita, but the width of the white St Andrew's cross behind it is different. The broader bit should be at the top. It's a bit difficult to describe but if you look at the flag you'll see what I mean - I hope.
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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Lucky Star wrote:I guess he's referring to the Union flag rather than St George's Cross. Many people inadvertently fly it upside down which is actually a sign of distress.
I thought the Union Flag was the flag of the United Kingdom, not of England? It's made up of the English, Scottish and Irish flags (not Welsh, because Wales was at the time considered part of England). The English flag is a red cross on a white background.
Daisy wrote:The red cross does Anita, but the width of the white St Andrew's cross behind it is different. The broader bit should be at the top. It's a bit difficult to describe but if you look at the flag you'll see what I mean - I hope.
Again, I'd say that applies to the Union Flag - not the English flag. The English flag doesn't have the St. Andrew's cross, which comes from the Scottish flag.
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


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Susan Webster
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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Susan Webster »

HI ,I`M PART WELSH SO CAN TRY AND HELP WITH ANY THING . THE DOUBLE LL IS BEST DONE BY PUTTING THE TONGUE BEHIND THE TOP FRONT TEETH THEN BLOW OUT . I SING IN WELSH BUT NOT ACTUALLY A WELSH SPEAKER THOUGH I DO KNOW SOME . SUE
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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Moonraker »

Of course you're correct, Anita, the English flag can be hung any way around. I was trying to make the point illustrating the English people's superiority in their inability to know which way round the Union flag should be displayed. Although it is correctly known as "upside down", in reality is is achieved by showing it back to front. Daisy is more used to my muddlesome brain, and guessed what I was trying to say!
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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Katharine »

I've been to Wales 2 or 3 times on holiday, and can't say I heard anyone speaking Welsh during that time. Most of my time was spent in North Wales, and certainly around the Llandudno region, the local accent seemed to be more Midlands than Welsh. The only feeling of being in Wales was the place names and numerous souvenirs with dragons on. I also spent a short time in the Cardiff area, which in many ways could have been any large town/city, although I do seem to remember a few signposts in both English and Welsh, such as for toilets, and possibly some road markings. Admittedly, the last time I was there was over 20 years ago, so maybe it's got more 'Welsh' since then, or maybe I didn't visit the right places.
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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Moonraker »

Oh, it has changed drastically in 20 years! Earlier this year in Snowdonia, every local spoke Welsh.
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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

I thought you were trying to tell us that the English flag has to be hung a certain way round, Nigel!
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Courtenay »

A handy illustration of which way around the Union Flag should go (as Nigel points out, the "wrong way" is actually back-to-front rather than upside-down):

Image

Here's the webpage where I found the picture, with some interesting info about the flag's history: http://greatbritishmag.co.uk/lifestyle/ ... es-it-mean" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Lucky Star
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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Lucky Star »

Thanks Courtenay that's interesting.
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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Deej »

Katharine wrote:I've been to Wales 2 or 3 times on holiday, and can't say I heard anyone speaking Welsh during that time. Most of my time was spent in North Wales, and certainly around the Llandudno region, the local accent seemed to be more Midlands than Welsh. The only feeling of being in Wales was the place names and numerous souvenirs with dragons on. I also spent a short time in the Cardiff area, which in many ways could have been any large town/city, although I do seem to remember a few signposts in both English and Welsh, such as for toilets, and possibly some road markings. Admittedly, the last time I was there was over 20 years ago, so maybe it's got more 'Welsh' since then, or maybe I didn't visit the right places.
It is fairly Welsh in Llandudno - 39% speak the language in Conwy five minutes away on the train. You do get a lot of people coming over from England, especially the North West.
Cardiff has a small percentage of Welsh speakers - 16% speak Welsh, one of the lowest in Wales.

If you want to go to a Welsh speaking area, Caernarfon is the place to go where in excess of 80% speak the language, while Gwynedd as a county is also very Welsh speaking. Anglesey is a good 70% Welsh and Carmarthenshire is almost 60%, a rare exception in the South as North Wales has the considerable majority of Welsh speakers.
National average is just under 20%.

The road signage for majority Welsh speaking areas has the Welsh on road signs first before the English.
Gwynedd - Araf/Slow, Ysgol/School, Maes Parcio/Car Park, Agor/Open
Wrexham - Slow/Araf, School/Ysgol, Car Park/Maes Parcio, Open/Agor
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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Courtenay »

Oh dear - now this is reminding me of a few "lost in translation" howlers from Wales that I read about a while ago...

Bladder alert lost in translation

Email error ends up on road sign

Swansea Tesco Welsh-English signs to different exits

Bedwas Co-op has Scottish Gaelic signs instead of Welsh

:mrgreen:
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Re: Learning Welsh

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Amusing stories, though it's amazing that they didn't get the wording on the signs proofread by a Welsh speaker!
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


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