Gets earlier every year?

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Moonraker
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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by Moonraker »

Nair Snehalatha wrote::D :D :D :D Christmas is the best time of the year--- it's so very, very Enid Blytonish---.Santa Claus ,coming down the chimney, stuffing the stockings of good children with gifts, the Christmas tree, the Yule log---. Enid Blyton says it all in The Christmas Book. It's really a great must read book.-- for all of us who JUST LOVE Christmas.
Not to mention the bedrock of the Christian faith..... :|
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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by Francis »

It did start out as a pre-Christian festival which was taken over by the church as the date of the birth of Christ although there is no evidence that this was actually so.
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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by Domino »

Quite right, Francis. It was the Romans who chose December 25th. to try to diffuse the fact that they couldn't stop people from celebrating Yuletide and Baccanalia. Jesus of Nazareth was born somewhere in mid-November and the year was between 4 and 6 BC (if that doesn't sound too paradoxical).

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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by floragord »

Poppy wrote:Sounds great, floragord. We always go to Beamish with the whole family at Christmas time - the ice skating is on there, and the smell of the fires is 'heavenly'. Loads of Christmas things to do - makes a great Christmas outing.
Delightful Poppy, how nice the whole family gets together for lots of lovely treats and outings at this special time of year. East Sussex is "log fire central" in lots of local cafes, pubs and hotels, adds a touch of magic to wintry days!
"Its a magic wood!" said Fanny suddenly.
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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by floragord »

Domino wrote:Quite right, Francis. It was the Romans who chose December 25th. to try to diffuse the fact that they couldn't stop people from celebrating Yuletide and Baccanalia. Jesus of Nazareth was born somewhere in mid-November and the year was between 4 and 6 BC (if that doesn't sound too paradoxical).
I'd read the birthday was in March and had been backdated to coincide with Saturnalia, whichever the date there's still nothing like a bit of "spin" from the authorities to make the festivities politically correct!
"Its a magic wood!" said Fanny suddenly.
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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by Domino »

That's right. I should have said Saturnalia, though that may have coincided with one of the Bacchanalian festivals. There were more than one each year, but they were private affairs.
Historians have tried to date the birthday and seem to have settled on November. The year used to be 2 or 3 BC, but seems to have been put even earlier now. There isn't enough evidence to be certain about it, only a strong probability that the traditional date is wrong.

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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by MJE »

Nair Snehalatha wrote:Santa Claus ,
     Santa Claus in Enid Blyton? Isn't the character far more likely to be called "Father Christmas"; I have always had the impression that "Santa Claus" is largely an Americanism that infiltrated Britain and Australia well after the death of Enid Blyton.
     However, maybe there's a question mark about this, and maybe "Santa Claus" *was* common even back then, but perhaps just in certain regions of Britain and Australia, and I wasn't exposed to those for the first few decades of my life. I say that because I recall someone (forget who, and whether it was on the forum or privately) pointing out a quite early Enid Blyton book that mentioned "Santa Claus", and it seemed to be an early edition too. I forget the details - can anyone clarify? There is always the idea in the back of my mind that, if it's definitely not an early edition, "Santa Claus" might be the result of later editing, presumably to make the book seem more up-to-date.
Nair Snehalatha wrote:coming down the chimney, stuffing the stockings of good children with gifts,
     I have a different kind of question mark about this, too. I know this idea is widespread about Father Christmas giving gifts to *good* children (meaning, by implication, that bad children would receive none, or fewer gifts); but seriously, what parent (and it's parents who are the real Father Christmas, of course) is going to leave one of their children out of Christmas gifts because they have been bad? I simply cannot imagine most caring, loving parents doing this. (Maybe parents who are less than loving and caring might; but we would hardly use them as the model or norm for Christmas behaviour generally.)
     It seems a double standard to me. If adults are not seriously prepared to use the withholding of Christmas gifts as a punishment for misbehaviour, I think it would be far better for us to cease linking the receiving of gifts with the standard of a child's behaviour. That's not to say that there mightn't be consequences for misbehaviour: there might be, and they might even be serious in some cases; it's just that this would be quite unrelated to the idea of Christmas gifts.

Regards, Michael.
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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Enid Blyton used "Santa Claus" and "Father Christmas":

http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/sear ... arch=santa+" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/sear ... +christmas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The links only show titles of books and stories. There are other books and stories in which Father Christmas/Santa Claus is mentioned in the text but doesn't appear in the title.
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by Domino »

Santa Claus definitely originated in Europe; originally from St. Nikolaos, a Greek from what is now Turkey. He was made a saint by the Eastern Orthodox Church and was popularised in myths and legends in Eastern Europe, especially Russia. Because so many American immigrants came from Eastern Europe, it's not surprising that the name took hold there.

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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by Katharine »

Michael, I too was under the impression that Santa Claus was an American import, but as Anita correctly shows, Enid Blyton did use the name in her books.

As a parent, I can't imagine myself ever not giving one of my children their Christmas presents because of bad behaviour. I suppose there has been the general idea that children should be good or Father Christmas won't visit, but I don't know if I've ever used that 'threat' myself. It's something that comes from books, TV or even visits to 'Father Christmas' at the school fete.
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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Yes, and it's in songs like 'Santa Claus is Coming to Town':

He sees you when you're sleeping,
He knows when you're awake.
He knows if you've been bad or good,
So be good for goodness' sake!


Enid Blyton's short story 'Santa Claus is Surprising' demonstrates very dramatically the idea of presents going only to children who deserve them.
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by floragord »

This has to be a record - not one but two Christmas catalogues have arrived today - the...
20th August?
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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by burlingtonbertram »

Can just beat that by two days - unwanted Christmas gift catalogue from Studio cards. Merry August everyone!
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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by Eddie Muir »

When I was in Eastbourne yesterday, I noticed that two charity shops were selling Christmas cards. :roll:
'Go down to the side-shows by the river this afternoon. I'll meet you somewhere in disguise. Bet you won't know me!' wrote Fatty.

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Re: Gets earlier every year?

Post by Moonraker »

A very Merry Christmas to you all. I also hope you have a great Easter. I expect Katharine has her tree up already.
[Other religious festivals are available]
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